quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by kluurs:
I see the vote as Trump-Yes or Trump-No



This

I agreed with this initially, but now I don't.

If we really want "Trunp-no," IOW if we truly want to keep Trump out of the White House, we need to make sure the Dems have the strongest ticket possible.

Yeah, but my point is we have NO control over whether Biden chooses to continue to run - and even if he chooses not to run, I may not like the candidate - but I'll still vote for them as I think nearly ANYONE is better than Trump. Having said that, i fully expect Trump to win.

Trump came close to winning the last time - and he's in a better position to win this time.

I'm afraid I have to agree. I think Harris is unelectable. I don't see anyone else with enough name recognition. That leaves us with nothing.

I hope there's a way to force Biden's resignation, asap, anyway. I think he's truly doing great damage to the institution of the office and to the country every day now.

I don't want to think about another Trump administration. The first one was a nightmare. I'm speaking personally.

But I'm compartmentalizing the possibility because I have immediate responsibilities to meet and hurdles to overcome.

November is indeed a long way away. I'm going to be very busy from today until August let alone next winter.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I have reached the fifth stage. Of grief, that is. Acceptance.

The Dems had a chance to pick a young, vigorous person to replace a doddering octogenarian. It looks like we’re not going to do it. Even knowing we’re well behind in the polls. Unless Trump dies, he will be the next president.

The Dems have a moral obligation to protect regular people from the crazies, and we are going to fail. This one is really sad, too. We have good options, but we refuse to try.

As for me, I have to decide to close out my career working for Trump. I’m not sure I can stand it, but I’m also not sure where I could go.

I have four months to figure it out.

I don't think it's over yet. It can't be. But it sure doesn't look promising.

Can it possibly be that some contenders have declined because Biden hasn't said he's stepping aside? Maybe.

The number of Democrats calling for a new candidate continues to climb, though. Biden is trailing in 6 of the 7 swing states. Pelosi has not definitively said he should not drop out. The more we find out about behind-the-scenes goings on in the Biden WH, the worse it all seems. I just cannot believe Democrats are going to take this lying down. As The Guardian's Marina Hyde wrote a few days ago, "How dare this be the choice?"

All this handwringing just further empowers Trump.

The man has said he won't step down. He's still the better choice over Trump. If we have any hope of persuading the undecideds to vote for Biden, this search for alternatives must stop.

I agree it would have been better for him to step aside. Let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Plan to watch the Biden news conference at 5:30ET.
Expect NATO news and more of the same like the Stephanopoulos interview.

quote:

Originally posted by piqué:

The man has said he won't step down.

I don't believe we will beat Trump with Biden as the candidate. Therefore, he needs to be persuaded to step down, and I am hopeful that he will be persuaded to step down, because it needs to be his choice.

Persuasion involves some degree of pressure. In this case, public pressure.

As I've said, this is like taking the car keys away from an elderly parent. They never give them up willingly. Except, in this case, it's the nuclear briefcase.

We definitely won't beat Trump if we can't unite behind the candidate. There has to be a cutoff point when the hand wringing stops and and we commit. Seems to me we are dangerously close to that cutoff, if we haven't already passed it.

Biden's poor showing in the polls isn't just because of the debate. It's also because of the way this is being handled/spun by the media. Once he stated strongly, repeatedly, that he was not leaving the fray, IMO it was time to unite behind him, not keep tearing him down, which only makes his chances of winning much worse.

We don't know that anyone else can win, either. And polls are not predictive. How and why would any undecided voter come out for Biden if his loyalists give up on him? Whoever the new candidate would turn out to be, they aren't a guarantee of a win, either.

Unless we are going to have a contested convention and have him forcibly removed, the quicker the calls for someone else to run end, and the sooner we all get behind Biden, the better. It is our only chance.

As for persuasion, it may or may not be possible. In the meantime, the loud choruses calling for him to step down need to shut up before all hope of winning is utterly lost. Anything else is chaos.

Disagree. It's his choice, ultimately, but just as the President has the power of moral suasion, so do we. People do change their minds, and we are not required to treat his declaration that he's not leaving the race as irrevocable.

Because he's declining before our eyes, we are already entering chaos. I think the chaos of trying to convince the man to give up the car keys is less of a risk than the chaos of letting him try to salvage this mess he's created. Nobody else had that terrible debate performance; that was all him. It's now clear to me that he cannot perform the duties of the President for the next four plus years.

A decrepit Biden is still better than any variation of Trump, but a decrepit Biden will cost us not only the Presidency but the Senate and the House and innumerable state offices as well.

Time to go, Joe. Thank you for your service. But none of us survive old age.

He called Zelensky "President Putin" today. More to come. Too much like G W Bush.
Dems require a functional candidate and Repubs require a figurehead to kneel before?

I will agree it's painful to watch him. I just had to turn off today's news conference. Word salad almost as bad as Trump. He may still be getting the job done--maybe he can still drive the car safely--I dont think we can know that from how he speaks--but he definitely cant be an effective campaigner. And that is part of the job.

If he cant be persuaded, then what? Seems to me persuasion needs a deadline.

I thought he did pretty well at the presser.

Pique, the problem is that Biden is behind, and time is running out. We’re on our own 20 yard line. Sure, you can run the ball up the middle. Or you can throw for the end zone. Biden has to go so we can have a chance with someone else.

Harris has her problems, to be sure. But I watched her speech from a few days ago. And she was saying all the things Biden could only mumble.

Talking about Biden’s lack of fitness isn’t the thing that will cost us the election. What will doom us is sticking with Biden when we know he can’t win.

Well, then, Cindy, please tell me, who do we know *can* win? Who is that person? Not, "these are possible candidates," but the slam dunk.

Because I don't think there is one.

And if all of this challenging of Biden's run keeps on much longer, it will guarantee he can't win.

He has a speech impediment. He has neuropathy. I fail to see how either of those things disqualifies him for the job.

I realize appearances do matter. (Otherwise, why did FDR hide the fact that he was in a wheelchair?)

We don't know that his inability to speak clearly and forcefully without gaffes (which he's always had), mean that he's diminished cognitively. We do not know that.

My point is that if he does not step down of his own free will, he is all we've got. And the surge of criticism from people who should be supporting him doesn't do any of us any favors.

By rights he should be removed according to the applicable Constitutional Amendment.