quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
May I ask why no one is suggesting Trump step down because he’s a convicted felon?

Convicted felon is a lot worse than one botched debate.

You don't need to ask Democrats because none of us think he should be president. That leaves republicans and they won't because ... they're republicans.

It isn't simply "one botched debate". Biden's age has been an issue for a while. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone to say they haven't noticed any decline in his movement and speech over the past year. It has been noticed that he doesn't hold press conferences. This debate was supposed to show that he's still got what it takes. It was a colossal failure. Made worse because he asked for the debates and goaded Trump into them.

It's not one botched debate. It's the fact he's cognitively impaired.

quote:

Originally posted by Bernard:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
May I ask why no one is suggesting Trump step down because he’s a convicted felon?

Convicted felon is a lot worse than one botched debate.

You don't need to ask Democrats because none of us think he should be president. That leaves republicans and they won't because ... they're republicans.

It isn't simply "one botched debate". Biden's age has been an issue for a while. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone to say they haven't noticed any decline in his movement and speech over the past year. It has been noticed that he doesn't hold press conferences. This debate was supposed to show that he's still got what it takes. It was a colossal failure. Made worse because he asked for the debates and goaded Trump into them.

I agree with both Steve and Bernard.

But I think Dems and people on the left do need to start hammering on this point — that Trump needs to step down because he’s a convicted felon and f*cking insane liar.

We can, and should, keep repeating that even as we figure what to do about Biden.

BTW my mother gave me permission to share a comment she made in a group chat she and I are in with some of her friends. (For the record, they’re all dems, and she’s very left, probably even more than me)

SK’s mom:

quote:

In addition to the impact that the inherently conservative effect of the electoral college, there is no doubt in my mind that The NY Times was a key factor in Hillary losing the 2016 election (with a plurality of votes). The NYT’s unrelenting coverage of her emails and the uncritical reporting on Trump’s appeal and showmanship were worth millions of dollars of campaign advertising for Trump. Case in point, media coverage of what Biden’s administration has accomplished - domestically and internationally - is not “news-worthy,” and not the focus today. Reports and opinion writers’ focus is and will remain on whether Biden should stay in the race, the issue will not go away, until it is no longer “news-worthy.“ Biden’s age is an issue that is easy to cover and for voters to immediately understand; and, it’s controversial and easily draws attention to what the national media report in print and online, which are key sources, if not the main source, for online commentary, TV news and right-wing radio, that 20/7 noise for all things alt-right. While there are critics of how the main media sources cover elections, they are not as “loud” as what’s online and on the screen. Frankly, I think Biden has already lost the election, his successful time in the presidency will not matter, and the question is not can he beat Trump it is whether will he step down or let Trump win.

So it may be too late, but we — and the liberal and centrist media — probably really need to shift messaging to focus on calling out Trump…

I think that where some of us differ on this is that we don't view Biden's performance at the debate as a one-off, something he can shake off. Biden had no business running for the nomination in the first place and he no longer has the skills to be President. He will have bad days and good days but I stand firm in my position that he is not the person he was even four years ago, and that he will never be.

I respectfully disagree with SK-mom. This is not the media's fault. They were all over the Access Hollywood tape and it didn't make a damn bit of difference to the Trump supporters. Hillary took the swing states for granted and didn't campaign there, so she and her campaign team must take responsibility for that. Those states are where she lost the election.

The coverage of the first Trump administration was relentless. If anything, Biden has gotten a pass from left-leaning media, which has either explained away or ignored his decline over the course of his presidency.


We are a divided country and every race is a close race. Trump never had the skill set needed to be president but he got elected once anyway. Half the country voted for him in 2016 and they will vote for him again in 2024 for many of the same reasons that Dems like myself will vote for Biden if he is the candidate, even if we don't think he's a good choice for the job. It's a choice between bad and worse and for many voters, they fear the other guy more than they fear their own.

I will vote for the Dem candidate, including Biden, no matter what, because I believe he, and perhaps as importantly the people who would be in his administration, have the best interests of the country at heart. I harbor no such feelings about the abiility of a Trump administration to do the same, and I think they present a huge risk for the country.

This was always going to be a tight race and in one sense, nothing has changed. I understand that the mechanics of replacing Biden are complicated and that it would be a risky endeavor to attempt it, but there's part of me that wonders if the Dems had a candidate that was the least bit competent (and one would think that would pretty easy to do given the choices we currently have), it would attract the voters who are on the fence about what to do.

We certainly live in interesting times.

The delegates are Biden supporters. That would have to change. Biden would have to release them and step aside with a fireside chat. I would be best if the candidate is suggested at that time by Biden.
A rowdy convention would be a disaster for the Dems, the country, and the planet.
The path to choosing a new candidate would easily be loaded with conflicts enough to make a bigger mess than McGovern-Eagleton.
If Biden decided to leave the race

Borowitz:
If you’re an American who’s exhausted by U.S. politics, I’ve found the perfect antidote: U.K. politics.
You ask, “What difference does U.K. politics make to me?” The answer is zero—and that’s why it’s such an escapist delight. Take it from me: Next week’s British election, which pits Rishi Sunak against Keir Starmer, is better than a fistful of edibles...

The pressure on Biden for the next debate (if he doesn't bow out) in September is going to be excruciating. If he botches that, forget about it. I don't think he can recover from this debate, let alone a botched on in September by which time it will be too late.

I'm in SK's mother's camp in that I am already preparing myself psychologically for a Trump second term.

CHAS, One of my favorite escapes is "Have I Got News For You" (and "Have I Got A Bit More News For You"). Someone posts them on Youtube. They are great and as they say, laughter is the best medicine.

https://youtu.be/IS4jGKejUy4?feature=shared

If you've never seen this episode, it's an absolute must...

https://youtu.be/yif3FM6PQtw?feature=shared

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:

I'm afraid to say this, but the only thing that can possibly save us now is a major medical event ...

Many are thinking "a major medical event" would help things, especially if it were that other guy.
Those things never happen when they should.

Yeah, but my point was that it really doesn't matter who has the medical "event." Each scenario would solve a problem, as long as it happened sooner rather than later.

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Yeah, but my point was that it really doesn't matter who has the medical "event." Each scenario would solve a problem, as long as it happened sooner rather than later.

True.

DNC plans a virtual vote by the delegates which will probably further cement Biden as a candidate.

quote:

Yeah, but my point was that it really doesn't matter who has the medical "event." Each scenario would solve a problem, as long as it happened sooner rather than later.

I hate to wish for something bad to happen to another human, but it's hard not to think about this...

My thinking exactly. I just voiced what millions have probably thought at one point or another.

quote:

Originally posted by piqué:
https://www.usatoday.com/story...e-biden/74260967007/

I'm not convinced. Never before have elections dealt with a raging populous willing to throw Democracy under the bus led by thoroughly despicable human being.

quote:

“At the first sign of adversity the spineless Democrats want to throw under the bus, their own incumbent president. My goodness.”

That statement is not true. Those in the know have been trying to warn us for over a year about Biden's declining state. In denial, I was willing to shrug them off, but the curtains have been pulled back and we've seen a glimpse of Biden unscripted. We're not witnessing the first signs of adversity. Thomas Friedman, a close personal friend of Biden who knows him well, has asked the President to step aside.

I'm thinking of the situation more along the lines of disaster mitigation and the Swiss Cheese model. There are a number of events (think of each as a slice of Swiss Cheese) and the holes are weak points. Think of a number of these events lined up (slices of Swiss Cheese), when a hole in one aligns with a hole in another and another, a catastrophic event is in the works. (The model is used in aviation.) It seems to me we have a number of events lining up and leading to a catastrophe.