I feel that as long as Hamas terrorists hold hostages, the IDF can strategically bomb and use any necessary force to move back into Gaza as they attempt to find and free all of them.


Hamas have no respect for any civilians, for any rules of war. Brutally using their own population as a human shield, they care for nothing other than their fanatic aims. Their propaganda (just watch Al Jazeera) and fake news is everywhere.
From what I've seen, i.e. reported fake news corrected, it was Hamas who blocked the only safe road south, not Israel.

The Judea homeland existed 2000 years ago. It roughly equates to the area of modern Israel.

There was an interview (Sky or possibly BBC) of two young Palestinian men who live in Israel, living behind barricaded doors and shutter. Their brother was shot outside thier home by a Hamas gunman last week, they had to sneak out to recover his body.
When asked what they wanted to happen, they said "Hamas is not friend to Palastinians, flatten Gaza"... and repeated it, saying they had family living in Gaza, but they wanted to flatten Gaza.


It's a goddam mess, and as usual people with no politics who just want to live a peacful life get caught in the middle.
Yet a critical point has apparently been reached for Israel, the horrific murdering of 1400 civilians and kidnapping of 150 innocents.
I would not blame Israel, as professional as the IDF are, if they ultimately flatten Gaza.


Well that's my 2c and more.

Bachophile says the number of dead will rise to 1800 as there are still 400 needing to be identified. Unbelievable.

quote:

Originally posted by jon-nyc:
Bachophile says the number of dead will rise to 1800 as there are still 400 needing to be identified. Unbelievable.

In Israel.

The numbers in Gaza and the west bank will soar over that, I'm sure. Current totals are already over 2K, and that's likely an underestimate. When the ground assault begins, casualties will rise exponentially.

I'm still afraid that the machinations in Iran will pull Hezbollah into the conflict, and perhaps Iran will take a more direct hand of its own. I've heard reports of Iranian tanks moving toward Khuzestan in its west, bordering Iraq.

We could see the beginnings of a conflict that completely reshapes the middle east. A conflict that kills hundreds of thousands and displaces millions.

Biden has clearly moved two carrier groups to the eastern med to forestall that war, but those doing the calculating in Beirut and Tehran might be in a risk-taking mood.

If Hezbollah starts raining Iranian missiles down on Haifa you will see total war worse than the Israeli assault on Lebanon's infrastructure in 2006. The civilian casualties will be horrific, and large numbers of people may flee or be pushed out of southern Lebanon.

Clashes war at Lebanon-Israel border raise fears of wider war

Cannot edit the above post.

Not with a whimper, but with a bang. Sorry T. S.

quote:

Originally posted by CHAS:
Cannot edit the above post.

If you're on a laptop or desktop, this might help:

https://well-temperedforum.gro...553916897#3553916897

Admiral Hagari spoke well at the IDF news conference. Proofs shown that the Islami Jihad misfired a rocket which damaged the Gazan hospital.

He answered all questions, reminding everyone Hamas war criminals attacked Israel with rockets, invaded and massacred 2000 civilians, taking 200 civilian hostages.

No sign of even the babies or elderly taken being released.

Time for the tanks to roll in. Personally I'd search, clear and raze every building systematically, and continue until all hostages are released or accounted for.

quote:

Originally posted by AD:
Admiral Hagari spoke well at the IDF news conference. Proofs shown that the Islami Jihad misfired a rocket which damaged the Gazan hospital.

He answered all questions, reminding everyone Hamas war criminals attacked Israel with rockets, invaded and massacred 2000 civilians, taking 200 civilian hostages.

No sign of even the babies or elderly taken being released.

Time for the tanks to roll in. Personally I'd search, clear and raze every building systematically, and continue until all hostages are released or accounted for.

I have read more over the past several days, and thought more about this situation in the Middle East than I ever have before. I have filled in a lot of gaps in my knowledge--though there is plenty more for me to learn, certainly.

I keep asking myself what Israel can do, given that their adversary will be satisfied with nothing less than their annihilation.

The people who keep saying "yes, but..." are driving me a bit mad. The friend who keeps searching for some kind of news that will exonerate Hamas, prove that they aren't all that bad... It drives me crazy.

I decided to join some online Jewish groups on social media. Some are mostly Israelis, some are Americans, some are both.


I'm finding my ill ease, rage, broken-heartedness, and fear are pretty universal among the Jews who are in these forums. It's a visceral thing. People are hurt, upset, and discouraged that their goyim friends just don't get it. That people are carrying on with life as usual and not giving this a thought--or worse, are still condemning Israel and saying they had it coming--and certainly aren't calling their Jewish friends to see if they are okay.

As someone who was raised without any religion, but still with a strong and proud Jewish identity, I can only say this sense of connectedness to what is happening to my tribe in Israel feels almost cellular. And it is very isolating. Especially living in Montana.

I never thought I would say or think this, but I think I am going to seek out other local Jews. The need for support feels overwhelming at times.

Apparently the UK has sent military forces into the region.

What that means is anyone's guess, mine being SAS/SBS units discretely being sent to help with rescues. The 200 hostages spread throughout Gaza gives the Israelis a massive problem.

And if Hezbollah start in the North I'd do a Dresden on them. These terrorists want nothing less than the destruction of the Israeli state and the massacre of its people.
With 150,000 (!?) missiles supplied by Iran, the reaction of the west to any attack from Lebanon had better be swift and devastating or they'll be after sinking the carrier fleet ships.

quote:

And if Hezbollah start in the North I'd do a Dresden on them. These terrorists want nothing less than the destruction of the Israeli state and the massacre of its people.

Israel did a quasi-Dresden on them in 2006, which is why Hezbollah has limited its activities to relatively small border skirmishes.

Quote from Hezbollah's Nasrallah in 2006 after Israel's furious response smashed Lebanon's infrastructure, and Hezbollah forces and infrastructure including their families.

quote:

Hezbollah fighters killed three Israeli soldiers and seized two more in a cross-border raid on July 12, provoking a fierce Israeli response resulting in 34 days of fierce fighting in Lebanon.

“We did not think, even one per cent, that the capture would lead to a war at this time and of this magnitude. You ask me, if I had known on July 11 … that the operation would lead to such a war, would I do it? I say no, absolutely not,” Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah said in an interview with Lebanon’s New TV station.

The Atlantic article on Netanyahu:

https://www.theatlantic.com/in...tack-failure/675722/

"The End of Netanyahu"

The article lists Netanyahu's various missteps over the years, argues that Netanyahu should resign right after the war, and predicts that Netanyahu will not be elected into Israeli leadership again.

Wow, an entire article repeating what I've said in this thread ...

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:

quote:

And if Hezbollah start in the North I'd do a Dresden on them. These terrorists want nothing less than the destruction of the Israeli state and the massacre of its people.

Israel did a quasi-Dresden on them in 2006, which is why Hezbollah has limited its activities to relatively small border skirmishes.

Quote from Hezbollah's Nasrallah in 2006 after Israel's furious response smashed Lebanon's infrastructure, and Hezbollah forces and infrastructure including their families.

quote:

Hezbollah fighters killed three Israeli soldiers and seized two more in a cross-border raid on July 12, provoking a fierce Israeli response resulting in 34 days of fierce fighting in Lebanon.

“We did not think, even one per cent, that the capture would lead to a war at this time and of this magnitude. You ask me, if I had known on July 11 … that the operation would lead to such a war, would I do it? I say no, absolutely not,” Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah said in an interview with Lebanon’s New TV station.

The difference here being Hamas had to know the response would be devastating. Two things are possible, given that Hamas is fundamentally a rational actor. First, that they believed worldwide public opinion and the screeching of the usual cohort of useful idiots would prevent such a response, or second, that this is what they wanted. I tend to think it is the first, and they wanted to make Israel look weak. Epic fail.