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| Should I try well-tempered tuning? | Login/Join |
| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity  |
I had my dampp chaser installed and the tech is coming back later next week to tune my piano. He recommended I try a well-tempered tuning, which is his preferred tuning. He said he does a modern style well-tempered tuning, whatever that means. although he said he could do an equal temperament tuning if I prefer. I’m open to it, but also, what if I hate it? Does anyone have any thoughts about how to think about this?
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Beatification Candidate |
Interesting! Take a peek at www.rollingball.com for graphical representations of the width of M3/m3 and 5ths in different historical tunings. I use a very mild well as an equal replacement - (look for mine - Koval variable series) which only has a maximum offset from equal temperament of 1.3 cents. (100 cents equals 1/2 step) It might be nice to get a name for his preference? Quick: every M3 in equal temperament is 13.7 cents away from sounding a pure third. Well temperament rearranges all of those equally out of tune M3rds into a range based on the circle of 5ths. Near the top should feel "more peaceful" while those near the bottom should sound "more agitated. I usually don't recommend a third wider than 17-19 cents from pure for a first into for modern ears. A "full strength" well temperament will have the widest M3rds set to 21 cents. (Young, Vallotti Young...) Going back to equal often feels like everything is vibrating in comparison. Lots more to it than that, but that should get you started. It is a guaranteed topic to get technicians arguing!
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
Thanks for the link Ron... I don't think I can make heads or tails of it! 
This is maybe something I can ask about... I would like to try it, but I'm hesitant because I have no frame of reference for it, and only one piano to play....
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Has Achieved Nirvana |
I know nothing about tuning, but were you satisfied with how the piano sounded with whatever your previous tuner was doing? Maybe there's something better, maybe not. Perhaps get to know this tuner and have him get to know you and your preferences...establish a working relationship before experimenting a lot. wtg, dealing with a failed experiment with a haircut, so my advice is probably biased...
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
So as it happens, I was not satisfied with the last tuning I had. But that was the first person I had tune my piano after we moved here, and I think the person was somewhat inexperienced. Before we moved, I had two tuners that I really, really liked. One is retired and the other is at NAMM right now, but maybe I’ll message him after NAMM is finished and ask him a few questions.
this is good advice.
Oh no! Hope it’s not too bad and grows out quickly!
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
I’ve been listening to these two videos… don’t know what to think yet. Of course, what you can tell from a video is limited…
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| Beatification Candidate |
There is respected tech in Nashville that tunes a well temperament in many of the recording studios as well as for many big names in the city. Done right and playing tonal music, the piano just sounds 'right'. There is a school of thought that the concept of 'key color' is the result of using a well tempered tuning - C major is the 'happy key' while Ab is the 'Noble' key... Anyway, the story goes that he offers to retune to equal for anyone that tries a well tempered tuning for the first time. He is busy enough that for those few that have requested the free tuning end up playing the well tempered piano for a month or so. After returning to equal temperament, all paid to have it put back to a well temperament... I'd say give it a go, you might find some interesting twists in familiar music.
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
Wow! I’m a little worried that I would like in some keys but not others.. Also how disorienting of it be to play on well-tempered piano at home and equal at a piano lesson? (I’m hoping to start up soon!)
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| Foregoing Practicing to Post Minor Deity  |
I must have a tin ear. These archaic tunings don’t affect me one way or another. Yet some people find them profoundly different. (I felt the same way before my hearing loss). However, I do appreciate microtonal music, such as Ben Johnston, so go figure!
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
RP it’s interesting, I often hear people say that amateur pianists are much more particular about the piano’s sound than professional pianists, I wonder if that’s part of it?
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
Another question I have about unequal temperament is how the sound changes as it slowly goes out of tune… What I mean is, I know how my piano sounds in the months after it gets tuned, and it doesn’t bug me. I always want to get it tuned about every 6 months because I love how it sounds after a fresh tuning and I like to keep it tuned etc. And it has been pretty stable (heretofore) such that, when my old tuner would come he would always say it wasn’t very bad etc. If I had it tuned to a well-tempered tuning, I wonder if my experience of it would change as it goes out of tune in the months after the tuning — i.e., would it “bug” me in a way it hadn’t so far.
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| Beatification Candidate |
I used to think the value of well tempered tunings was the "calmness" offered at the top of the circle of 5ths at the "expense" of the extra vibrancy at the bottom. Then I tuned a pretty strong temperament for a jazz player who just loved the that energy now available at the bottom of the circle. So it's really more about adding emotional range - the theory being that the composers of pre-20th century were all playing on alternate temperaments and chose keys based on the sounds of those keys. Another school of thought is that a true equal temperament was actually quite rare until the 1980's or so with the rise of the electronic tuning devices that spurred a more analytical approach to aural tuning. Even now I will follow up on aural techs only to realize that what they are calling equal temperament really wasn't... It takes very few errors to skew the intervals - but the mistakes commonly made trying to tune equal often result in a "reverse well" - with more energy at the top of the circle, but more randomly spread out through the keys.
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| Beatification Candidate |
For "ripening" tunings.... most of the time it is the unisons wandering that people notice. Unless the sections are going out from each other causing octave problems just above the bass break.
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
The emotional range is the thing that interests me. OTOH, I’ve also heard the argument about composers before, but since 99.9% of the composers I play were born after 1950, I wonder how relevant it is for me… I’m thinking I might ask for an equal tuning now and revisit this question in the summer, because if I hate the tuning right now, I don’t have time to easily schedule a re-tuning (between my schedule and the tuner’s drive from his town). Maybe in the summer I can find an unequally tuned piano to try out first…
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| Beatification Candidate |
Too bad the sound is a little glitchy. This is similar to presentations that I've tuned for student technicians to introduce alternate temperaments. Multiple pianos with different strength temperaments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBt6APk21tU
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