Yup - it's condo ownership, which means the responsible party is going to be the HOA. Now we'll find out if they carried adequate insurance.

Condo Owners Sue HOA

Something like that happened to one of my coworkers. His building’s collapse cause had to do with an excavation and how close other buildings are to an excavation.

The coworker owned a two or three flat walk up building in a high density neighborhood with zoning that allowed buildings to be built all the way up to the property line. A new building was under construction next door to his just a couple of feet away. The trenches for the new building’s foundation were being excavated for the forms for the poured concrete when the coworker’s building started to collapse. The fire dept. and building dept. condemned his building quickly and gave him and his tenants an hour or so to clear out as many belongings as they could before the collapse got any worse. Insurance covered his loss. No one got hurt.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
Yup - it's condo ownership, which means the responsible party is going to be the HOA. Now we'll find out if they carried adequate insurance.

Condo Owners Sue HOA

There is no way the HOA carries insurance sufficient to cover the deaths of 100+ people, plus injuries and medical bills.

This is Florida. They're not big fans of government rules, like requirements to obtain adequate insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
There is no way the HOA carries insurance sufficient to cover the deaths of 100+ people, plus injuries and medical bills.

This is Florida. They're not big fans of government rules, like requirements to obtain adequate insurance.

I doubt they carry that much insurance as well.

Not so much because it's Florida, but because it's an HOA.

There was a 15 year old boy who was rescued right after it happened. He's in the hospital but sadly, his mom didn't survive.

The missing:

https://www.usatoday.com/story...collapse/5344851001/

I am super annoyed about something I heard on the news. The mayor of this town said something like this only happens in Third World countries.

Excuse me, but I think it is high time people in this country owned the problems we have had a leading role in creating. If a building pancakes, that is almost certainly a reflection of a failure of local and national systems. It also may be a reflection of our refusal as a nation to assist with global warming counter measures.

So let’s stop pretending that anything bad that happens is foreign, and is somehow beneath us. Apparently, it is not.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I am super annoyed about something I heard on the news. The mayor of this town said something like this only happens in Third World countries.

Excuse me, but I think it is high time people in this country owned the problems we have had a leading role in creating. If a building pancakes, that is almost certainly a reflection of a failure of local and national systems. It also may be a reflection of our refusal as a nation to assist with global warming counter measures.

So let’s stop pretending that anything bad that happens is foreign, and is somehow beneath us. Apparently, it is not.

Yes, this has been bothering me for a while as well.

It’s the same as when there’s a mass shooting or some other problem or crime, and someone says “this is not who we are.”

No, that is exactly who we are.

This quote is from a WaPo article - paywalled and not much different from others you have read. But one quote from the article got my attention:

quote:

At the Residence Inn and the Four Seasons, evacuees from Champlain Towers mingled with relatives of the missing. Hotel room prices soared to $800, even $1,500 per night.

+1 to what Cindy said.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I am super annoyed about something I heard on the news. The mayor of this town said something like this only happens in Third World countries.

Excuse me, but I think it is high time people in this country owned the problems we have had a leading role in creating. If a building pancakes, that is almost certainly a reflection of a failure of local and national systems. It also may be a reflection of our refusal as a nation to assist with global warming counter measures.

So let’s stop pretending that anything bad that happens is foreign, and is somehow beneath us. Apparently, it is not.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
This quote is from a WaPo article - paywalled and not much different from others you have read. But one quote from the article got my attention:

quote:

At the Residence Inn and the Four Seasons, evacuees from Champlain Towers mingled with relatives of the missing. Hotel room prices soared to $800, even $1,500 per night.

The Four Seasons wouldn't be cheap under any circumstances. But that's price-gouging for a Residence Inn.

Best they hope their buildings aren't the next to fall.

quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I am super annoyed about something I heard on the news. The mayor of this town said something like this only happens in Third World countries.

Excuse me, but I think it is high time people in this country owned the problems we have had a leading role in creating. If a building pancakes, that is almost certainly a reflection of a failure of local and national systems. It also may be a reflection of our refusal as a nation to assist with global warming counter measures.

So let’s stop pretending that anything bad that happens is foreign, and is somehow beneath us. Apparently, it is not.

Yes, this has been bothering me for a while as well.

It’s the same as when there’s a mass shooting or some other problem or crime, and someone says “this is not who we are.”

No, that is exactly who we are.

And "widespread election fraud" as the basis to pass new laws to allow a legislature to change the results of a popular election, and assorted similar carp.

But I digress.

I have read a few articles.

One said that the building had just received it's 40-year renewal of permits. Another made it sound like that was upcoming shortly.

An engineer who inspected the building said there was a major flaw in the design and construction... the waterproofing under the pool deck and other structure was flat so water didn't drain. There was cracking in the underground garage and in some places, rusted rebar was visible. All bad signs. The town is built in "reclaimed" wetlands (I hate that term) on top of limestone. If it doesn't drain and gets saturated, it fails.

At least one engineer pointed this out. He also said that repairs should be done soon and would be very costly.

Miami is one of the most at-risk cities for sea-level rise. For the last few years, rich people have been buying up all the higher-elevation property, even in the poorest areas. That may only buy them another decade or so.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
This quote is from a WaPo article - paywalled and not much different from others you have read. But one quote from the article got my attention:

quote:

At the Residence Inn and the Four Seasons, evacuees from Champlain Towers mingled with relatives of the missing. Hotel room prices soared to $800, even $1,500 per night.

It's Florida. They don't like rules, especially things like consumer protections. Price gouging? That's the American way.

quote:

Despite an engineer’s warning of major structural problems, a town building official told board members their Florida high-rise condominium was in “very good shape” almost three years before it collapsed, according to minutes of that meeting released Monday.

The Surfside official, Rosendo “Ross” Prieto was quoted as making those comments at a meeting of the Champlain Towers South board on Nov. 15, 2018. That was just over a month after engineering firm Morabito Consultants issued a report describing key flaws in the structure.

The discussion with Prieto came as Champlain Towers was beginning to explore what work was needed under city and county ordinances for the building to meet a 40-year recertification that was to arrive in 2021.

quote:

Yet there is no evidence any of the critical concrete structure work ever started, the documents show. Owners of the 136 units had been told earlier this year they would have to pay their share of a $15 million assessment — $9.1 million of which was major work — by July 1. That assessment ranged from about $80,000 for a one-bedroom unit to more than $330,000 for a penthouse.

https://apnews.com/article/sur...4fd4e688dae2601c64b1

Sorta sounds like they were taking steps to address the problems, but not nearly fast enough.

And I'm still wondering if the real issue was the ground under the building, and that it simply gave way....