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Originally posted by Mary Anna:

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Originally posted by CHAS:
The man is too stupid to be in that position.

That's about where I come down on this.

There aren't many times when I'd say, "Yeah, go ahead a ruin that person's life." A serial killer? Yeah, go ahead and ruin that life, but this does not rise to that level.

But I don't think anybody who is this tone deaf belongs in that position, so I don't have a problem saying, "Probably oughta go find another job, buddy." People get fired for cause every day of the week.

And him losing his job is probably not going to ruin his life. He'll probably retire pretty comfortably regardless.

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Originally posted by wtg:
We seem to be holding people to impossibly high standards that no one can live up to.

The way I see it: He's human. He made a mistake. It was brought to his attention. He apologized and said he would do better.

Forgiveness is OK, and I think our world needs more of it.

I was thinking exactly that. He screwed up. He screwed up in a big way. Yes, he should have known better. Yes, he's a white male and an educator and in a position of privilege. Can he not apologize and ask forgiveness? Or do we need capital punishment in every instance?

I would imagine that we all have things that we've said in various contexts that we know we should not have said, that we wouldn't have said if we'd given it a moment's thought and that we all wish we could reach out and yank back. I know I do.

In a business context, there is a reason I very often speak slowly and deliberately. It gives me a moment to pick my words more carefully and hopefully reduces the risk of one of these gaffes. But that doesn't work quite so well in public speaking. No one wants to sound like an aging Donald Trump.

I cannot make out what he’s trying to say in that short video clip in the tweet.

On the surface it just seems like a spectacularly stupid thing to do in 2022, no matter the sentiment behind it.

Wtg - you and one of the articles mentioned some sort of exculpatory context from the previous speech but the article didn’t share what it was.

Do you know specifically?

The NPR article (and others) explained that the previous speaker talked about making up words, but I have not seen a transcript of that speaker's remarks.

I also have not seen anywhere that says what time stamp to look at, but I assume you could find it if you watched the whole thing (which I have no intention of doing). Here's the entire commencement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...H-4&feature=youtu.be

Also, here's his apology:

https://www.pnw.edu/an-apology...ellor-thomas-l-keon/

P.S. NPR's comment:

quote:

When Keon spoke, he referenced a speech made immediately beforehand by keynote speaker James Dedelow, where he mentioned a made-up language he sometimes uses as a radio host on the air and with his family.

It's not clear to me that it was even necessary for the chancellor to comment on the previous speaker, but again, zero info here.

jon - here's what I read in the local Indiana media. Reader view works to get past the paywall.

quote:

Thomas Keon, chancellor at Purdue University Northwest, issued an apology Wednesday for a joke he made Saturday at the graduation ceremony.

"On Saturday, December 10, during one of our PNW Commencement ceremonies, I made a comment that was offensive and insensitive," he wrote in a statement posted to the university website and social media. "I am truly sorry."

Keon's comment was made in reaction to keynote speaker James Dedelow of WJOB radio.

"I have a thing on the air if you ever listen, sometimes I just roll off into a made-up language, and I've taught it to my granddaughter so if she starts crying," Dedelow said during his address. "It's 'ishkamaloofla' language. Hopefully I don't have to use it."

Later in the speech, he returned to the bit for comedic relief and belted out gibberish that was seemingly reminiscent of a Slavic or Eastern European language.

When Keon took the stage, he did a cartoonish impression of an Asian language.

"That's sort of my Asian version," Keon said immediately afterward to a mix of laughs and gasps.

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/...7c-de608495733c.html

That prompted me to watch the speeches at the two commencement ceremonies that were held that day. Dedelow spoke at both and his speeches were a little off the wall and funny (he talked about having lived in a commune at Berkeley, and he's a former CBOT trader so that makes him a little crazy), and of course included the fake languages mentioned above. And I listened to Keon actually do his Asian fake language, but I did so from the larger context of what went on before. The sounds were barely out of his mouth and it was obvious he realized it was a mistake.

Dedelow also went out of his way to praise Keon's accomplishments at the university, including admitting that several years ago he gave Keon a hard time when Keon first said that he was going to grow the university from a commuter college to a regional college.

https://www.pnw.edu/commencement/commencement-live/

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On the surface it just seems like a spectacularly stupid thing to do in 2022, no matter the sentiment behind it.

It was. He shouldn't have said it, but is it worth destroying him for it? I am pretty shocked about comments that he'll probably retire comfortably or that he doesn't deserve the job. I would like to think we can assess people on the totality of their accomplishments, not just a dozen poorly chosen words.

I still believe he's just the convenient fall guy of the moment and is being crucified for other people's real racism. If this results in the destruction of a man's career for what may well have been a verbal misstep, then maybe we need to re-examine the 2022 rules for expected behavior. For me, at least, this is not a healthy nor sustainable path to a better future.

eta: That's my assessment but am willing to reconsider it if other examples of racist behavior on Keon's part come to light. Somehow, though, I would be surprised if a damning Twitter feed or blog is going to be uncovered...

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I am pretty shocked about comments that he'll probably retire comfortably

Why would you think that he wouldn't? Usually, when faculty move up through administrative positions, they "lose tenure" so there are various elements of their contracts that protect them in other ways. Anyway, here's his intro on PNW's page and it shows some of his past positions. Just looking at that, I have no doubt he'll retire comfortably.

https://www.pnw.edu/leadership...meet-the-chancellor/

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He shouldn't have said it, but is it worth destroying him for it?

This is the question, but what does "destroy him" mean? Does "lose job" = "destroy"? Especially for someone in a position like his?

Regarding what counts as "real racism" ... I think it's a mistake to downplay the impacts of this kind of mocking.

Nevertheless,

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I would like to think we can assess people on the totality of their accomplishments, not just a dozen poorly chosen words.

I agree with this and I certainly know next to nothing about him other than this 18 second video clip.

So I do recognize that it's easy for me to criticize him because I'm not involved in deciding whether he should actually be made to step down or not.

I am shocked that people here would make those types of comments. Especially after acknowledging that they don't know anything about the guy besides a clip on the internet.

quote:

This is the question, but what does "destroy him" mean? Does "lose job" = "destroy"? Especially for someone in a position like his?

I would think that someone in your position can appreciate a sense of pride in what you have accomplished in your professional career. Imagine that in a heartbeat your reputation is destroyed over one incident. Even if you were left intact financially, how would that make you feel emotionally?

quote:

I think it's a mistake to downplay the impacts of this kind of mocking.

And I think it's a mistake to kill an ant with howitzer, which is what I think is happening here.

I'll repeat it: I don't see this as a path for solving the problem you think you're trying to address.

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how would that make you feel emotionally?

How did the Asian American families in the audience feel emotionally to hear him talk like that, on what should have been a joyous day?

I keep flipflopping in my own mind about whether I think he should step down or not, but it's distressing to me to see his actions minimized. Among other things, I find it hard to believe that someone who has never done that before (i.e. never did the fake Asian speech thing before) could so readily pull it out of the air like that. And I read his whole apology and it just reads like CYA to me. So I'm having a hard time understanding how your sympathy is placed so squarely on him.

In any case, I'm not keen to argue with you, and I don't see that we're going to come to an agreement, which makes me sad.

I didn't mean to leave you standing as the lone ranger in calling what he did racist, sk. I too consider it racist. I just wanted to try to point out that ridiculing people for being different is wrong in ways that go beyond race.

Like you, I wonder whether those particular nonsense syllables in that particular tone with that particular facial expression came so quickly to him because he uses them frequently, but this is only speculation unless people who have seen him behave this way before say so.

As for whether he should lose his job, it's a judgement call to be made by the university's board of regents or whatever body hires and fires people at that level in his state. A big portion of his job is to be the public face of the institution, so they're going to have to decide whether he is the person they want filling that role. If they decide he isn't, then he is being fired for cause. That's a terrible blow, but it does not mean he's being destroyed. It means that he is losing his job. This is something that happens to people all the time.

Me, too. I also want to quote from his official apology (bold is mine):

quote:

We are all human. I made a mistake, and I assure you I did not intend to be hurtful and my comments do not reflect my personal or our institutional values. In the true spirit of diversity and inclusion that is a cornerstone of PNW, I will learn from this and assure you that Purdue Northwest and I will take action to prevent such missteps from occurring in the future.

My thinking is, "put your money where your mouth is." I'm not ready to give him a pass because he made a mistake and issued a most-likely highly curated apology. Some mistakes are costly, and the cost is context-specific. No one is talking about taking him out behind the barn and shooting him. Instead, we're questioning whether he should remain in his position. In my opinion, no.

And SK - in my experience faculty who move into administrative positions generally do retain their faculty tenure and rank, and will quite often return to their faculty position if they choose to leave their administrative one but not yet retire. (This is also common when it's strongly suggested that they "choose to step down" from their admin position.) So I don't believe he will lose his job, but I could easily see him returning to the faculty, where he will get a chance to take those actions he promised, overtly and visibly.

I also liked Mary Anna's point: would we be so concerned about whether he was a nice guy if, instead of mocking Asians, he mocked disabled people, or those with mental disabilities, or of another religion?

Finally, I keep thinking about how stupid it was, as in supremely stupid. On most campuses, one of the highest minority student groups are Asians (the other are students from the middle east). I keep thinking about the families of the students who came to campus to help celebrate this significant achievement, only to find themselves being mocked, not by some loser in the stands, but by the freaking chancellor. He doesn't belong in that job any longer.

OK, this is really finally Is there any practical or actual difference between saying "he made a racist comment" (which seems to be clearly true) and "he is a racist"?

I don’t doubt that Keon did not *intend* to be hurtful towards Asians. But the *impact* of his remarks were hurtful and othering. And that matters. Intent vs impact, and why your intentions don’t really matter.

He may not see himself as a racist, but the outcome? Racist.

He can learn and do better. But maybe he should step down.

I did go fast forward through the video, and the previous speaker does use a made up language several times (sounds Russian-esque?). That’s what Keon was riffing off. Fell pretty flat, but I see that he was trying to relate. A bad idea, which he figured out as he was speaking.

Side note: I just got back from vacation in Hawaii, where I spent a lot of time trying to parse out Hawaiian names. Not to mock, but because I wanted to get it right. I asked a ranger at Hawaii Volcanoes National Park for the correct pronunciation of Halema’uma’u and found out I had the wrong syllables emphasized in my head. Now doing better! (Both Mauna Loa and Kīlauea stopped erupting the day we traveled to that side of the island. Timing is everything.)

I think he should be fired with cause.

This is my opinion and I don't feel the least bit guilty about it.

Well, I guess Biden has to go too.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...40e5ba9ac404852af91e