quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
I’m with Doug on this one.

Employee/Employer is a partnership, not a military operation. Top down authoritarianism is a great way to make sure you hire only toadys and bootlickers. Millennials won’t stand for it for any length of time, and more power to ‘em.

OTOH I haven’t worked for anyone else for 30 years and don’t expect to start up again any time soon. I may be out of touch.

YMMV.

You are not out of touch. If anything, younger employees these days feel even more empowered.

quote:

Originally posted by Nina:
I guess where I'm getting stuck is this. What I'm hearing is "why should I write a thank-you note? They should be thanking meeee for even considering working for them." This sounds petulant and bratty. I'm pretty sure that you're not petulant and bratty (can't vouch for Doug, though ), so I'm kind of stuck trying to figure out why the notion of a thank you email has struck such a negative chord. Because to me it's a relatively painless thing to do, it greases the social skids, it's nice, it's good manners. It has nothing to do with whether you have multiple job offers. It strikes me as common courtesy. If you've already decided you don't want the job then sure, don't write a thank you email. But if you're undecided or you do want the position, write the freaking email.

Maybe it is a gender thing. If so, you dudes need to get off your butts and be nice.

I’ve gotten plenty of job offers without writing thank you notes. I think you confuse subservient and nice.

Which is not to say I’ve never written such a note. But I think writing that sort of note has happened more frequently (for me) since it became easier ... i.e., since email.

I ask questions about the job and the company during the interview. In fact, I think I am especially good at this part of interviewing.

That is because my questions about the job, the company, and the interviewer are thoughtful, unique, and thought provoking.

And I absolutely want to know if a new job will work me half to death or whether my boss is a micro manager.

There’s plenty of time to vet on those matters after the offer.

Just for curiosity, Cindy, how’s your turnover rate?

Pre-Trump was no turnover. We had budget, staff, experts, resources, hiring authority, leadership support. Our work made headlines, and it felt like we were saving lives.

Post-Trump we have lost 50% of our attorneys who do police reform. There are now fewer than 20 DOj attorneys doing police reform work, and there are 18,000 policing agencies in the U.S.

If Trump wins in 2020, I might be the person who turns out the lights because everyone else could bail.

Ugh. Doesn’t sound good. Are these positions now un-funded or just open looking for the right hires?

quote:

Originally posted by Mikhailoh:
Hell, I'm not even particularly nice in interviews anymore, much less writing a damn thank you note. . I am totally myself, I do not embellish - this is what I can do for you, this is how I like to do it. If that is something you desire, hire me If not, save us both the trouble.

Like.

Just for the record, I have no problem with writing a thank you note. I’ll play the game and I won’t mind it. We both know it’s a game, right?

Just tell me the rules before we start.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
Ugh. Doesn’t sound good. Are these positions now un-funded or just open looking for the right hires?

Say your section of DOJ is authorized to have 50 attorneys and one attorney leaves. You can hire a replacement. That's called backfilling.

We have not been permitted to backfill since inauguration day. When someone leaves, their position disappears.

I believe we just got permission to hire a few people. So we absolutely have to nail this hiring process, because if we hire someone who is bad or who leaves, we won't be allowed to replace them. If we get a whiff that a candidate is ambivalent, they won't get an offer.

An interesting predicament.

Might it be time for you to pursue opportunities in the private sector? Or perhaps as self employed?

No. I absolutely love the mission and the work. In the civil rights world, being with DOJ is the dream job. Just last week, I got to observe taser training, and later this year I'll get to watch use of force training in one of those shoot don't shoot simulators.

The statute we enforce was passed in response to the Rodney King beating, as it was thought that there needed to be federal oversight of police agencies that had a pattern of violating civil rights. I really think our investigatios shine light on troubled agencies, and the result is safer policing for officers and communities.

I decided to tough out the Trump years. I mean, I just got here in 2013 and didn't start police reform work until 2015. I can retire in seven years, so why start over in a new job now?

It's a gamble, but I've decided to hang on.

Good on you for what you do.

You need to hire for passion. How is your current hiring protocol working out for you?

It might be working great, I don’t know. I don’t think it would work well in CA.

I can't imagine sending a thank you note to the company (person) who advertised that he needed a position filled, and I went in to offer my services.

just can't imagine how this all started

quote:

Originally posted by LL:
I can't imagine sending a thank you note to the company (person) who advertised that he needed a position filled, and I went in to offer my services.

just can't imagine how this all started

Good point. In many (most?) cases, the company puts out a job description. They don't get a letter from the middle of nowhere saying, hey, got any jobs?

That's especially true in government work.

It's interesting to me how this has exposed a real difference of opinion about thank you emails. To me, it really underscores a sense of professional identity for some, manners for others, respect, yada yada yada. All from something like whether to send a thank you email.

This is not meant as a snide comment. I truly find it interesting. One of the divides I perceive (may not be real): in general terms we WTF'ers are educated and in many cases are or have been very successful in highly professional occupations. None of us are new to the job market. I know when I look for a job that I have a set of technical skills that are hard to find, and years of experience. If you want my skills and are willing to pay for them, I'm one of the few who might fill your job. If you don't, then I'm not. No hard feelings. So I get the idea that a job interview is a give and take to determine fit. I've done that in every job except my first. But I still have sent thank you emails and didn't think twice about it. I've even sent thank you emails declining to pursue the position further. I have never, ever, thought of that as setting up a subservient relationship.

So I do find this interesting. My armchair analysis (worth what you paid for it ) is that it may be a combination of gender and work experience/education/job type (commingled). Beats me.