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| How is this not treason, exactly? | Login/Join |
| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity  |
So. You're a woman born in the U.S. and living in the U.S. One day, you decide to join Isis, and you spend time there urging Isis to do Isis-like things. Isis loses, which has to feel like a bummer. Undaunted, you figure you'll just pop over to the U.S. and resume your old life there. WTF? I don't think there are technical grounds to bar someone like that from the U.S., necessarily. But couldn't she be tried for treason or war crimes? I hate to say it, but I agree with Trump on this. Banning an entire group of people because of their being Muslim is wrong. But banning someone for something they actually did -- supporting an enemy of the U.S. -- is something else entirely different. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0...de-hoda-muthana.html | ||
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Has Achieved Nirvana |
1. Those are two completely inconsistent statements. In the first, you say that there are no technical grounds to bar her. But then you say you agree with Trump about barring her. 2. She agrees that she can be tried for treason. She just wants to come back for her child’s sake. 3. Her situation is sui generis (I hope I have the Latin right). She was born here, but her parent was a diplomat, so the law (but perhaps not the Constitution?) says she’s not entitled to citizenship. But yet, she was issued a passport, and only a citizen can hold a U.S. passport. The State Department’s argument seems to be “oops, we screwed up, but she doesn’t have a valid passport NOW”. 4. Assuming she’s a citizen, they can’t bar her from entry, can they? Regardless of any crime she may have committed? She can still be tried for the crime, but are there any legal grounds to keep a citizen out of the country? 5. Can you revoke someone’s citizenship if they shouldn’t have been granted citizenship in the first place? All in all, a great law school exam question. | |||
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Has Achieved Nirvana |
Doesn’t a charge of treason require that the country is at war? Asking for a friend.
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Has Achieved Nirvana |
Yes. | |||
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
re: 3. Isn't it axiomatic that the Constitution is the law of the land? I remember a day when the consensus was legal conventions signed by the U.S., e.g. the Geneva Conventions were considered the law of the land. | |||
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| "I've got morons on my team." Mitt Romney Minor Deity  |
UK just told a woman in a somewhat similar situation that she made her proverbial bed ... UK Revokes Citizenship | |||
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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity |
My statements are consistent. I don't know if there are technical grounds to bar her. But if not, I think she should be tried for treason or war crimes if she returns. This doesn't make sense to me. Under the Patriot Act in the wake of 9/11, we tried people for giving money to terrorist organizations. Surely it is a crime to fly over and work on the ground in aid of a terrorist organization. Even if she did not personally behead anyone, she was part of a conspiracy to commit heinous acts all over the world. If they can find a technicality to declare her not a citizen, go for it. As for her child . . . maybe the kid can come back without her. How old is this kid, anyway? | |||
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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity |
According to Wiki: Therefore, the United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381 states: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. | |||
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| "I've got morons on my team." Mitt Romney Minor Deity |
In the Constitution:
It says nothing about formal declarations of war passed by Congress. If you war on the US, you are guilty. ISIS was killing our citizens, and she was adhering to our enemies. The real question, it seems, is whether she was a citizen. You can't be tried for treason if you are not a citizen. But you can be kept out. | |||
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
Please don't try to reformulate your statement to say that what you said was consistent. It plainly wasn't. You said you agreed with Trump about banning her. I'm glad that you've realized it, and that you are now saying things that are in fact consistent, but I wish you'd simply acknowledge your error instead of trying to rewrite history to pretend you never said the inconsistent thing in the first place.
I don't really know what she did or didn't do. But, conceptually, I don't have a problem with any of that. | |||
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
There you go. | |||
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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity |
Sorry you misunderstood me so completely. | |||
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
Ah, there it is, blaming the reader for the plain reading of poor writing. Let's try it again:
You said that there are no technical grounds to ban her, but you agree with banning her. It's obviously so painful for you to admit that you made a mistake that you have to perform linguistic gyrations to pretend you didn't. | |||
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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity |
Quirt, please do not derail this thread with an argument over nothing. Some folks may want to discuss the issue. Thank you. Anyway, I desperately hope the dems are smart enough to stay on the correct side of this argument. So far, they have said nothing. | |||
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
I merely pointed out that you said something obviously inconsistent. You felt the need to defend your inconsistency and to pretend that you had not made a mistake. I feel really sorry for you that it's so difficult to admit you made a mistake. It must be hard to go through life like that. | |||
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