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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity  |
Maybe I am hard-hearted, but the only person on that contraption I feel sorry for is the minor. His dad led his own son to his death. I mean, I can understand why someone with a ton of money might think this would be a really cool experience. One of the passengers was apparently a Titanic scholar who was there to narrate and provide audio and explain what they were seeing. But come on. It is one thing to get on a roller coaster and have no idea if the contraption is safe. But getting in a contraption and going to the *ocean floor* without a very clear idea about what kind of company you're dealing with? This sort of thing happens often in tourism, sadly. Remember all of those people who were on a cruise and did a shore excursion to the top of what turned out to be a live volcano that incinerated some of them? I can see a person in that situation figuring, "Surely they wouldn't be running excursions to this volcano if it weren't dormant." But trusting a private company not to cut corners on safety when taking you to the ocean floor? The Daily had an episode this morning with an expert who said this company cut corners all over the place. Can it possibly be true that the pilot used **an X-Box controller** to run the submersible? And the company web site explained that the reason the vehicle wasn't certified was because it is so very cutting edge that the stodgy old experts who certify submersibles can't wrap their heads around all their cool tech advances? And that the hull was partially made from a material commonly used in aviation but had no track record on the ocean floor? I mean, I would have seen that malarkey and be Done and Done. I do not understand this way of thinking. I just don't. | |||
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Has Achieved Nirvana |
That example is feeding 250,000 people a day for 11 years....a billion feeds 25,000 for nearly 110 years, at $10 a day.  Turns out it's much less than ten dollars a day to feed people.
https://www.wfpusa.org/article...ines-climate-crisis/ David Muir had a report from South Sudan a few months ago. https://abcnews.go.com/Interna...ng/story?id=98636490
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity  |
Cindy, I basically agree with you, and I def feel sorry for the son. But even though I agree that this trip was very, very stupid and unnecessary, their deaths are regrettable... it's a subtle distinction I guess, and in the end doesn't really matter.... Separate from that, I don't really know how to process the money and privilege issues that are wrapped up here. If these passengers hadn't been on this vessel, they certainly wouldn't have been using that money to alleviate hunger. That doesn't mean we can't criticize things, or them... I don't know, I just don't know what the point is. I never rejoice in someone's death (not that anyone on this thread is rejoicing)... I don't believe in the death penalty, and so somehow those details are all wrapped up in my reaction to this.
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Minor Deity |
Actually, it's probably the best we coulld have hoped for since we didn't find them bobbing on the ocean. They never knew what hit them.
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
Mik, good point. I was reading about a rescue from the 1970s, two guys working on undersea cables IIRC. It said when they were finally brought up (after 80 hours) and extracted from the vessel, they only had about 12 minutes worth of oxygen left. So I guess if the passengers of the Titan had to die, I guess better like this than having them brought to the surface but only a few minutes late… maybe?
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
Yea, my point was not that they should have spent the money on a charitable endeavor like feeding people, but rather how our attention is drawn to the loss of five lives in a way that the loss of 25000 every day doesn't.
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
Sorry, I’m reading around online and a lot of people are talking about how many mouths could be fed etc., so I wasn’t really directing my comment at you specifically, but at the discussion in general. Anyway, you’re right. We as a society are completely indifferent to the vast majority of suffering and injustice in the world. Partly it may be that we can’t “understand” the larger-scale problems, but this five-person tragedy is easy to digest. And partly it may be due to their face, nationality and privilege. It’s no excuse, but may be a partial explanation.
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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity |
I will freely acknowledge my biases. If these people had been desperate and destitute and risked their lives on some rickety boat because it was the only hope they had, I would feel differently. So the money and privilege does matter to me somehow. But in a way, I think these people were snowed. Despite being rich and/or experienced, I doubt this company was honest with them about the risks. I can only imagine the lies that were told. And I will rejoice in someone's death if they deserve it because they are straight up evil. I am not in favor of state-sponsored death penalty, but I also don't mind if the Romanian dictator and his wife get what's coming to them. | |||
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| "I've got morons on my team." Mitt Romney Minor Deity  |
Looks like they got door number 2 ... | |||
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| Unrepentant Dork Gadfly  |
Here’s my #1 issue with this. How much money was spent (by both Canada and the US) to try to find these wealthy people when those same governments are constantly penny pinching programs that could help their most vulnerable citizens? Also, when you contrast the media coverage that this received with that received by ships full of refugees sinking, it’s hard for me to not be disgusted with humanity. Edit: by “this” I didn’t mean the quoted post. I just mean this whole situation in general.
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
I have the same concerns, dol. This group of people decided to engage in a risky endeavor with a private company. When things went south, the company called on the resources of several governments to bail them out. This happens on a smaller scale when people get themselves into trouble when hiking or rock climbing or boating. Some states will bill people for the rescue effort. To me, that only seems fair. https://www.themanual.com/outd...ch-and-rescue-guide/ I have no clue what will happen in the Titan situation.
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
https://www.independent.co.uk/...ploded-b2362670.html
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| Pinta & the Santa Maria Has Achieved Nirvana  |
I tend to agree with most of the comments here. The situation with the son is heartbreaking. I think the families should offer some amount of money toward financing the rescue efforts - perhaps not cover all, but some amount I think is fitting. Maybe all. I will be gobsmacked if that happens though. In my experience (alas, not first hand) folks with scads of money hang onto it with a viselike grip. That's how they got to have scads of money. It's not a financial thing at that point, it's a power and ego thing. The thing that I found equally as distressing about this was the sheer amount of media coverage it was receiving. I found it truly morbid. And of course as mentioned above, minimal to no coverage on the other folks who died in the same time frame. I'd be curious to know the square inches (or e-version of the same) devoted to this vs the refugee ship that was turned away by the Greek coast guard. | |||
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity |
Dol, WTG, I totally agree that the amount of ones spent on the rescue is disturbing, particularly in the context of the way governments habitually ignore those in need. If we are billing hikers for getting rescued, we damn well better be billing the relevant people in this instance. Cindy, again, I don’t disagree. Money and privilege does matter, and it makes me angry, but at the same time, I don’t want anyone to “get what’s coming to them” if that means death. If that make sense… As for the news that the son was terrified of this trip, if true, that makes his father a monster. 
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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity |
So, the CEO is dead. I wonder if others in management can be prosecuted? I’m not even sure what country would have jurisdiction. I am way out of my league with maritime law, but would it be the country where it was manufactured or launched, or the country in whose waters it went down? | |||
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well-temperedforum.groupee.net The Well-Tempered Forum Off Key Submarine exploring Titanic is missing