I have full function here on my tablet if I use Firefox, but not if I use Chrome.

On my laptop, I have full function on both browsers.

On my phone, Chrome does not have full function. I don't have Firefox on my phone. But I don't like viewing WTF on my phone anyway. I'm mostly here on my tablet, as I try to only use my laptop for work.

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Originally posted by piqué:

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Right, but I never had that problem in the past. I use Firefox on my laptop and Safari on my iPad and iPhone, and I’ve been doing that for years. I always had access to all the functions regardless of browser.

At some point, that changed, and the forum is only fully functional if I’m on my iPad or iPhone. This is a recent development, like in the last few months I think.

It's because of upgrades and changes to the browsers. They have different levels of functionality on different devices. And that changes over time as the browsers evolve.

You will notice this on many web sites. You have different functionality on your phone than you do on your laptop.

I don’t notice other websites that have broken functions when you switch devices. Because that’s what we’re seeing here at WTF — it’s not “different functionality,” it’s that some functions that should be there are literally missing.

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It's because of upgrades and changes to the browsers.

This is definitely part of the equation. And many, if not most, changes to servers and browsers over the past several years are related to security. Some browsers are more lax than others in adherence to exceptions. And from what I surmise, it's a good thing that we don't see the icons when using Chrome. It appears to be taking things seriously. (Too seriously? That's philosophy.)

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I don’t notice other websites that have broken functions when you switch devices.

Right you are. When changes are made to underlying services and libraries, some hosts, due to their size or access to resources, are able to accommodate the changes readily (depending on who you ask). Other sites may take a bit of time to cover all the bases. A lot of it depends on the architecture of the application(s), size and experience of staff, and how easy/difficult changes can be implemented. But since it's been about a year since I retired I don't need to think about it any more. And that pleases me.

Folks, give this a try:

On your browser's address bar, check if the address looks like https://www.well-temperedforum.net/eve/...

If it does, try getting rid of the "www." part of the address, i.e., in the address bar, use just https://well-temperedforum.net/eve/...

Cannot guarantee that the above will fix it for everyone in every situation, but it's something you can try. Other fixes will have to rely on the admin/operator running the site/server that hosts WTF, whom I cannot reach.

Doesn't seem to make a difference for me. Do I need to clear out cache or cookies or something?

I keep reading the title of this thread as “what’s wrong with WTG.”

then I wonder why there’s only two pages of comments….

Well ... if you take a broad enough interpretation, "What's wrong with WTF" can be a loaded question.

Don't change the platform. It would lead to the loss of even more members through attrition.

Is the backup site mentioned the Facebook page?
Tried Firefox again. It was too much trouble.

This dysfunctional site could be discouraging new members.

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Originally posted by CHAS:
Is the backup site mentioned the Facebook page?
Tried Firefox again. It was too much trouble.

No, it's not. It's a site that Ax set up for us that uses more up-to-date forum software. I sent out a PM at the time (a couple of years ago) to let people know. Don't know if it's still in your PM inbox.

Here's the site:

https://wtf.coffee-room.com/recent

Some said they bookmarked it but didn't register. Others registered and did a few test posts. I started to move over some things like the Cookbook recipes, but since there was no interest in moving over, I stopped. I log in every few months to be sure it's still up and running.

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This dysfunctional site could be discouraging new members.

I don't know if we can expect many new members, but it's certainly possible current WTFers are getting tired of the problems cropping up. I know I am.

Moderators have very limited powers (mostly the ability to edit/delete posts) and the best I've been able to do is offer half-arsed workarounds so we can limp along. I'm not familiar with this technology anyway, so can't help much to address the ever-increasing number of issues that we have.

Admins have a bit more authority and access to the tech side, but ultimately a lot depends on the company hosting the site; they are the ones who provide the software. I have no idea who that is or how to get in touch with them to report our issues. And even if I did, I have no authority to submit a request, as I'm not the forum owner.

Since there are so few of us, we could try a temporary move over to Ax's backup site for a month or something and see how we like it. We could leave a note here telling people that's what we're doing. After the trial period, we could vote on whether to make the move permanent or come back here. As Mik mentioned earlier, TNCR has changed platforms several times. The core group has stayed together, and even members who hadn't posted in years have managed to find the new site.

Ax, are we up to date on software over there and ready to make a move if we choose to do so?

I'll vote now. I'm up for a trial period on the other site, as I think it's inevitable anyway.

I'll be scarce here for a while but will try to check in periodically to see how the discussion unfolds.

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I'll vote now. I'm up for a trial period on the other site, as I think it's inevitable anyway.

If people want to try to move, I’ll move.

I feel like this is a solution looking for a problem. My main concern is that longtime members who stop by only very rarely won't be able to find us. Moving will also tend to thin our ranks, not increase them.

I find moving to be a much bigger hassle than just switching to another web browser.

How about our admin contacts Groupee and tells them about the issues and let them upgrade the site for security and compatibility?

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My main concern is that longtime members who stop by only very rarely won't be able to find us.

How long do we wait for longtime members who don't post for extended periods to come back? I'd love to see them, too, and have reached out via other venues to keep in touch with some of them. But I guess I would ask if it's fair to ask the WTFers who have continued to be active to struggle with malfunctioning software on a regular basis while waiting for folks to drop in for an occasional post every few years?

And it isn't as if WTF would disappear without a trace. This forum would continue to be here and would have a "find us at our new place" note to direct people to a new site.

I should also note that even if we do not move to a new platform, WTF could go "poof" at any time and that would be completely out of our control. We've been on the edge for years now and it could implode at any time. Or just keep limping along. That's why the backup was created, as a preemptive move. And, I assume, at least in part why you created WTF in Exile on FB.

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How about our admin contacts Groupee and tells them about the issues and let them upgrade the site for security and compatibility?

Of course that's the obvious solution.

As I mentioned above, neither admins nor moderators have any capability to make requests to the forum host. Which, incidentally, is no longer Groupee/Social Strata and hasn't been for years. The forum owner is the only one who can do this.

A number of people have made repeated efforts to flush a whole host of issues up to the forum owner over the last several years, including transferring control to someone who actually posts here regularly and who has the technical expertise to handle day-to-day forum management. There has been no response, and we don't know why. Maybe you'd have better luck than we have had.

Since that path seems to have been a non-starter, we're trying to work from there to provide a viable platform for the WTF community to gather, despite some significant obstacles.

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Moving will also tend to thin our ranks, not increase them.

Our ranks have been thinning for a long time. And as Chas noted, how many people have we lost/are we losing because of forum software problems?

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I feel like this is a solution looking for a problem.

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I find moving to be a much bigger hassle than just switching to another web browser.

Everyone has a different perspective about whether it's harder to live with the deficiencies or learn some new software. And one could argue that moving is a one-time nuisance and that living with broken forum software is death by a thousand paper cuts.

Also not sure if you're aware that it's not just the missing Reply/Edit/Report icons and broken emoticons that are the issue. There are other things that don't work for some people but do for others. And some pretty big vulnerabilities. For instance...

The functionality to send alerts for things like PMs and to reset passwords has also been broken for a long time. Some of us no longer get an email alert to notify us when we've gotten a PM. We don't have many moderating issues here these days, but as a moderator I don't get notified if someone reports a post. I have to check manually. And we had a heck of a time getting Big Al his password reset a few years ago.

For some of us, the "New PM" flashing thingy is on all the time even if we've read all our PMs. For some folks this has been non-functional for years; it affected me maybe three years ago.

None of the above are browser or device-specific issues, so there's no way around them. Are they deal breakers? Of course not. But at some point dealing with the noise gets old. And the issues keep piling up.

Posting photos requires a third party hosting site and manual resizing, requiring several steps. I think it keeps people from posting more pics because it's too complicated.

As an ex-systems person, my biggest concern has been our vulnerability in case of a catastrophic outage. Our emergency procedures are hanging by a shoestring. And, of course, trying to get the software bugs fixed. We have tried our damndest but to no avail.

Those of us affected by some or all of those deficiencies have worked around them or just put up with them, but you have to ask whether it's time to consider abandoning ship.

Ax's backup site has up-to-date functionality that (most importantly) actually works. One good example is that posting photos is drag and drop. And probably most important, we would get control of the forum software back so that fixes can be made if something goes wrong.

Anyway, I'm just trying to paint the entire picture so that we can, as a community, make an informed decision about our situation. Do we do a trial period on different software and then regroup and see if we think it's better or worse than what we have and then decide what to do from there? Or do we just continue as we have been, with the forum functionality eroding over time and its stability in question?

I don't think moving is such a big deal.... I've just joined Piano Tell as PW is imploding, so that predisposes to me to be comfortable with moving I suppose.

But as WTG outlined in her most recent post, the problems with the forum are much greater than the missing emoticons and buttons.

To me, that's the argument in favor of moving.

But WTFers tend to check the site once a day or less, so let's give some more time for more people to chime in....

Should we start a new thread with a better title?