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Last Minute Jan 6 Hearing
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Has Achieved Nirvana
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Trump was impeached days after Jan 6 happened. It was folly to go after him then. There wasn't time to gather evidence and present a coherent case.

But I'll say it again: It's important work and it needs to be done. And now is the time.

quote:
Originally posted by Daniel:

I doubt the electorate views these hearings as doing anything to address a myriad of problems that aren't being addressed competently.


On this we agree. I repeat my comment from above, where I acknowledge that people are focused on matters other than the Jan 6 committee:

quote:
Most people are understandably concerned about issues facing them in their daily lives and are putting the blame on the current administration... Inflation, gas prices, stock market....pick your poison.


And then I go on to say "someone has to address...." and talk about members of the committee who are doing the investigation.

From your previous comments, I've been getting the impression you think the Jan 6 Committee never should have been formed, and that the members shouldn't be doing this investigation. But communicating on a forum like this can be tricky and I may be completely misunderstanding what you're saying.

So, do you think the committee should exist, and that it should be doing an investigation?


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37922 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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BTW, are you old enough to remember Watergate? The tide turned pretty slowly with respect to public opinion on that one, too.....


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

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Posts: 37922 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sources close to the Secret Service say that Engel and the unnamed driver who were in the car with the TIC when he allegedly grabbed the steering wheel are saying that one or both of them may testify at a future hearing. I've heard two versions of what they might say, that they will "push back hard" on the story or say that it didn't happen.

These are the details from the hearing that no one is reporting on. I'm constantly reminded that first sources are best.

Cheney does a masterful job of getting some details on the record. From the transcript of the hearing:

quote:
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: When I returned to the White House, I walked upstairs towards the chief of staff's office, and I noticed Mr. Ornato lingering outside of the office. Once we had made eye contact, he quickly waved me to go into his office, which was just across the hall from mine. When I went in, he shut the door, and I noticed Bobby Engel, who was the head of Mr. Trump's security detail, sitting in a chair, just looking somewhat discombobulated and a little lost.

I looked at Tony and he had said, did you f'ing hear what happened in the Beast? I said, no, Tony, I — I just got back. What happened? Tony proceeded to tell me that when the president got in the Beast, he was under the impression from Mr. Meadows that the off the record movement to the Capitol was still possible and likely to happen, but that Bobby had more information.

So, once the president had gotten into the vehicle with Bobby, he thought that they were going up to the Capitol. And when Bobby had relayed to him we're not, we don't have the assets to do it, it's not secure, we're going back to the West Wing, the president had a very strong, a very angry response to that.

Tony described him as being irate. The president said something to the effect of I'm the f'ing president, take me up to the Capitol now, to which Bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the West Wing. The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel.

We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel. And Mr. — when Mr. Ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles.

LIZ CHENEY: And was Mr. Engel in the room as Mr. Ornato told you this story?

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: He was.

LIZ CHENEY: Did Mr. Engel correct or disagree with any part of this story from Mr. Ornato?

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: Mr. Engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story.

LIZ CHENEY: Did Mr. Engel or Mr. Ornato ever after that tell you that what Mr. Ornato had just said was untrue?

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: Neither Mr. Ornato nor Mr. Engel told me ever that it was untrue.


Transcript of Jun 29th hearing.

popcorn


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

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Posts: 37922 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Will Ornato or Engel testify?


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Posts: 12691 | Registered: 01 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The people in the limo with the TIC (that's Toddler-in-Chief) were Engel and an unnamed driver.

News reports are saying that the Secret Service is talking to the Committee and that one or both of them may testify under oath.

Sources close to the Secret Service are saying that they will "push back" (that was ABC news take) or deny it happened (Fox News take).

When I heard Cheney asking those questions about whether Engel ever corrected Ornato's telling of the story, it was clear she was setting the stage for possible future questioning of Engel and/or Ornato.


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

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Posts: 37922 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"I've got morons on my team."

Mitt Romney
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Ornato is the key more than Engel. That's why Cheney asked that particular line of questions. Engel can deny that the supposed events in the "Beast" actually happened, but then he has a problem explaining why he didn't pipe up in that room when Ornato was supposedly explaining to Hutchinson what took place. Hence Cheney's "did Mr. Engel ever correct or disagree" ...

If Ornato calls Hutchinson a liar we have "she said against they said." If Ornato backs her up, Engel is in a hot spot. And if there is another witness up Cheney's sleeve that Ornate/Engel don't yet know about ... whoa, some people could be up to their eyeballs in perjury.

Do we know who sent the clearly witness tampering emails?
 
Posts: 12536 | Location: Williamsburg, VA | Registered: 19 July 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yup on the first part of your post.

As far as possible witness tampering...Cheney towards the end of the hearing:

quote:
Our committee commonly asks witnesses connected to Mr. Trump's Administration or campaign whether they've been contacted by any of their former colleagues or anyone else who attempted to influence or impact their testimony. Without identifying any of the individuals involved, let me show you a couple of samples of answers we received to this question.


The samples are in the transcript I linked to above, almost at the end of the hearing.

edit: Seems like she's sending a warning shot across the bow to whoever sent the threatening emails/made the calls. Chairman Bennie added:

quote:
But after hearing your testimony in all its candor and detail, I want to speak directly to the handful of witnesses who have been outliers in our investigation. The small number who have defied us outright, those whose memories have failed them again and again on the most important details, and to those who fear Donald Trump and his enablers.

Because of this courageous woman and others like her, your attempt to hide the truth from the American people will fail. And to that group of witnesses, if you've heard this testimony today and suddenly you remember things you couldn't previously recall, or there are some details you'd like to clarify, or you discovered some courage you had hidden away somewhere, our doors remain open.


popcorn


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

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Posts: 37922 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/29...statement/index.html

We'll see where things land....I think the committee has some more things up its sleeve...


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37922 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Cheney is definitely all-in. From a speech last night.

quote:
"We are confronting a domestic threat that we have never faced before -- and that is a former President who is attempting to unravel the foundations of our constitutional Republic," said Cheney, the vice chair of the House committee. "And he is aided by Republican leaders and elected officials who have made themselves willing hostages to this dangerous and irrational man."


quote:
"No party and no people and no nation can defend and perpetuate a constitutional republic if they accept a leader who's gone to war with the rule of law, with the democratic process, or with a peaceful transition of power, with the Constitution itself," she said.

Cheney continued, saying that "the full picture is coming into view" of Trump's actions thanks to the January 6 committee's nearly year-long investigation. "It has become clear that the efforts Donald Trump oversaw and engaged in were even more chilling and more threatening than we could have imagined," she said.

Speaking directly to her own party, Cheney said it might be "painful for Republicans to accept," but said that members of the GOP have to make a choice.

"Republicans cannot both be loyal to Donald Trump and loyal to the Constitution," she said, to a round of applause.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/29...n-library/index.html


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

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Posts: 37922 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't understand why it exists. Because he was impeached concerning the same matter.
 
Posts: 24724 | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Do we know who sent the clearly witness tampering emails?


https://www.politico.com/news/...ry-messages-00043638

So Cheney was definitely sending a message to the Trump World contingent.

She did an interview with Jonathan Karl of ABC News yesterday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...testimony/ar-AAZ1q3I


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

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Posts: 37922 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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