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. Not all black students admitted under "affirmative action" in the 1970s were "unqualified." Especially if "qualified" means "could succeed." Yes, of course, some students admitted under affirmative action did not succeed in the hothouse environment of elite institutions. Many succeeded just fine, i.e. got a degree from an institution whose average "white kid" might have had higher SAT scores.

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Affirmative Action and the Quality-Fit Tradeoff

I know I'm a real downer by always pointing people to genuine social science literature written by some of the best social scientists in the US today, but ... there it is. Sorry ... Big Grin

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This suggests that mild racial preferences will have a positive impact on
minority outcomes. The issue is whether racial preferences in their current form are so strong that mismatch effects may arise. At more selective undergraduate schools and among virtually all law schools, affirmative action is practiced extensively, particularly for African Americans, and leads to substantial differences in the academic backgrounds of minority and majority students.

* * * *

As we argue throughout this paper, the net impact of racial preferences come down to whether the strength of the overall college quality effect is larger or smaller than any match effects.

* * * *

The evidence suggests that racial preferences are so aggressive that reshuffling some African American students to less-selective schools would improve some outcomes due to match effects dominating quality effects. The existing evidence indicates that such match effects may be particularly relevant for first-time bar passage and among undergraduates majoring in STEM fields. However, shifting minority undergraduates to low-resource non-selective schools ultimately may undo any gains from higher match quality, and shifting minorities out of law schools altogether could lead to worse labor market outcomes among these students than had they been admitted to some law school. Alternatively, schools that wish to practice extensive affirmative action could provide targeted services to these students in order to overcome any mismatch induced by their admission policies, such as offering tutoring and remedial classes. While the evidence on targeted college services is scant, it is plausible such interventions could be successful in mitigating any negative match effects.

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This issue isn't simple and straightforward.

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Originally posted by piqué:
Quirt your quotes are cherry picked, and I can do the same but did not because one or two selective quotes arent the totality. And if you are honest you will acknowledge that there is agreement in the paper with what i wrote.

You've had a knee-jerk reaction that because I think 1970s era affirmative action hurt some students in some situations that therefore i dont believe in affirmative action or in giving a leg up to people who have suffered discrimination. I said no such thing and i see it's more important to you to argue than to actually carefully read and think about what I actually did write.

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The existing evidence indicates that such match effects may be particularly relevant for first-time bar passage and among undergraduates majoring in STEM fields.

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Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I think your information might be out of date. I’m unaware of any evidence that minority students at elite universities are in over their heads.

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Originally posted by jon-nyc:

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Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I think your information might be out of date. I’m unaware of any evidence that minority students at elite universities are in over their heads.

There’s plenty, though interpretations vary and are controversial. Google ‘mismatch theory’.