Regarding his being tried as an adult, he wasn’t. He pled guilty.

Even if he had been tried as an adult, that isn’t inconsistent with the parents being held responsible.

They were not convicted of being bad parents. They were convicted of getting another person a gun , knowing the person was unstable, and then when asked about the person’s threatening behavior, keeping all of it secret.


Imagine you know a couple where the husband has a history of domestic violence so bad he isn’t allowed to own a gun, and you know all about it. He rants to you about how he hates his wife and wants her dead. You buy him a gun for his birthday and within days he has killed the wife.


I would be comfortable treating that as a crime.

quote:

I don't know that CPS would view not providing health insurance as cause for their involvement.

From what you described, it sounded to me like the problem was not providing health care, and that’s what I was reacting to.

Nevertheless, your other point, that calling in CPS when it's not warranted can be devastating for the child, is also well made.

quote:

Originally posted by piqué:

likewise, none of us gets to tell other parents how to raise their children. and the consequences of calling CPS can be so utterly devastating to families, you'd better be damned sure the harm those children are suffering at home is worse than the harm caused by removing them.

i've worked with kids on suicide watch after they were removed from their parents. people are quick to judge, without understanding the situation fully or appreciating that their version of good parenting isn't something they get to dictate to others. calling cps can be a pretty arrogant thing to do.

Perhaps I'm arrogant then, because, to SK's point, if I was aware of a child who was injured so badly that they would be "immmobilized in bed for weeks" and the parents were refusing to take her to a doctor, I would consider that CPS-worthy. I've taken a ton of mandatory reporter trainings as part of working for the school system and parents ignoring an injury that severe definitely falls under what I would be legally required to report here in Pennsylvania.

There are a lot of right wing Christian homeschoolers teaching their kids nonsense around here and for the most part, I eyeroll and move on -- if they want to bring their kids up believing the earth is flat and dinosaurs never existed, IMO it sucks for the kids (and for the future of society) but it is their right as parents. But when kids are suffering actual physical or emotional neglect, that moves beyond "different parenting philosophies" and into a societal responsibility to prevent child abuse.

And contrary to what you might think, I'm not anti-gun. Guns definitely do have their place out here. We've had to call on some of our responsible gun-owning neighbors to take care of things like rabid/sick wildlife in our yard etc. I even understand the self-defense angle -- we are miles from the state police barracks and it would likely take 20 minutes+ for police to reach us if there was an emergency. I'd consider owning a gun myself if I had more confidence that I could use it properly and if I did not have a child with a mental health history. I can take care of the first issue with training and LL#1's issues have been medicated and under control for years (and she lives 3000 miles away now) but I still can't help feeling that the risk of an accidental or intentional shooting from having a gun in our household outweighs any possible chance of us needing a gun in an emergency situation. So we'll continue to remain a gun-free household and rely on our neighbors for any wildlife-dispatching needs LOL.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm not judging gun owners as a class of people. I have zero issues with responsible gun owners, even ones who teach their kids (responsibly!!!) to shoot. Those people tend to respect the weapons and, by storing them securely and teaching their kids how to behave with them, they also respect the lives of people around them. The class of people I DO have issues with are the irresponsible folks who buy guns and then, as Bernard said, treat them like toys instead of the deadly weapons they are, cavalierly putting their own lives and the lives of everyone around them at risk.

As I said earlier, I'm not commenting on anyone here, but describing my response to the news stories and the reader comments on those news stories. A lot of judginess without actually knowing the family in question.

As for my 17 year old neighbor, luckily she and I communicate directly. I told her in no uncertain terms what her parents should be doing about her injury and apparently that shamed them into action as they did ultimately take her to urgent care. They declined to get her an MRI, which I thought would have been appropriate, but at that point she was in a doctor's hands and he must have decided it wasn't necessary. I am concerned that the reason she's now got a full time job instead of in school is because her parents expect her to pay for her medical bills--she says she does her school work at night--but she's doing okay and is the kind of kid who is going to make her way just fine in the world regardless of who her parents are. And I don't need to go to war with my neighbors. She knows she has a safe harbor with me if she needs it. I wish I'd had the common sense this girl has at her age.

All this discussion prompted me to text her for an update. She finally got in to see my doctor and now she is in great hands. He sent her to PT and hopefully she will go.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Regarding his being tried as an adult, he wasn’t. He pled guilty.

Even if he had been tried as an adult, that isn’t inconsistent with the parents being held responsible.

They were not convicted of being bad parents. They were convicted of getting another person a gun , knowing the person was unstable, and then when asked about the person’s threatening behavior, keeping all of it secret.


Imagine you know a couple where the husband has a history of domestic violence so bad he isn’t allowed to own a gun, and you know all about it. He rants to you about how he hates his wife and wants her dead. You buy him a gun for his birthday and within days he has killed the wife.


I would be comfortable treating that as a crime.

Well reasoned.