I don't agree, Cindy. I think as far as his tenure of presidency goes, he is done. That is, as long as he can't initiate some major action he isn't a threat re "another reported battle to try to fight". (Example being his sending troops to start or resume a war overseas - Iran? Re their enriched Uranium - as an excuse.) ),

Wars traditionally being a guaranteed way to unite the population.

But could he be empowered to take such an action unilaterally as Commander in Chief?

What I see happening in the event of impeachment, is (however gradually) his people's' eventually switching their loyalties to Pence. (All the more so for the cabinet). I think Pence has for a long time being the preferred presidential model by the GOP - the ones with brains and even (most of) the ones without.

This would be the perfect time to put that preference into effect even turning the more hoi polloi elements.

Then, despite Biden's (now undisputed) win he would become the projected POTUS candidate for 2024.

They're have to come up with some excuse to explain away Trump's last minute attempted coup (wasn't it?) But after all, hasn't be been giving repeated warning of his unwillingness to cede office in the event of an (apparent) loss to Biden?

So in effect, the torch would be passed to Pence. Trump's last fighting words echoed by his people ("I will not cede" and his intention of running in the next election) would be attached to Pence and he'd be the effective leader of the GOP in between. AFAIS Pence's behavior in this trying time, has been impeccable even to both sides. He was loyal as long as he could be, but in the end he showed himself to be honorable in his loyalty to the Republic superseding his loyalty to Trump.

quote:

Invoking the 25th or impeaching him will give him another battle he will try to win.

We should wait him out.

I think he needs to be 25-ed (can we make that a new verb?) or impeached, for a whole bunch of reasons, including so that he can't run again. Also to send a message to the world about what kind of country this is.... I mean, in the faint hope that it would maybe counter, even a tiny bit, the message America has been sending out since 2016...

I'm on the fence on this one.

Cindy raises a good point about giving him another battle, and by extension, a battle cry for his supporters. There are a lot of them and they could spell a lot of trouble.

On the other hand, he is still president and wields a lot of power. He could do some major league damage in the next 13 days, militarily or otherwise.

It's a crapshoot either way.

John Kelly is saying the Cabinet should have a discussion about invoking the 25th.

quote:

Secretary of State (Mike Pompeo)
Secretary of the Treasury (Steve Mnuchin)
Secretary of Defense (Christopher C. Miller)
Attorney General (Jeff Rosen)
Secretary of the Interior (David Bernhardt)
Secretary of Agriculture (Sonny Perdue)
Secretary of Commerce (Wilbur Ross)
Secretary of Labor (Eugene Scalia)
Secretary of Health and Human Services (Alex Azar)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (Ben Carson)
Secretary of Transportation (Elaine Chao)
Secretary of Energy (Dan Brouillette)
Secretary of Education (Betsy DeVos)
Secretary of Veterans Affairs (Robert Wilkie)
Secretary of Homeland Security (Vacant)

How many of these are temporary, acting, non-confirmed? Do they count if they are not permanent, confirmed appointees?

And Elaine Chao resigned today. I heard Pompeo announced he was going to resign, but it hadn't happened yet. So is it a majority of people or a majority of positions?

He needs to be out before he can pardon anyone else, like himself, his children, the magats, roody, et al.

Most of all, he is dangerous and unpredictable. And he continues to believe that the election was stolen and that massive fraud was committed. He is divorced from reality. That makes him unable to serve.


And he needs to be impeached and convicted with the punishment that he cannot serve in any elected office ever again.

That opens the question: if he is relieved of duties under the 25th Amendment, can he be impeached while not acting as president? I think so, because the 25th Amendment clearly states that he is still president, just not acting as such.

quote:

Cindy raises a good point about giving him another battle, and by extension, a battle cry for his supporters. There are a lot of them and they could spell a lot of trouble.

Good. Let him fight. Let his supporters froth with spittle coming down their chins. That's perfect for driving the knife deeper into the heart of the disgraceful old party.

quote:

On the other hand, he is still president and wields a lot of power. He could do some major league damage in the next 13 days, militarily or otherwise.

To me, this is the primary concern and the main reason why I think he needs to go, now.

Well, that and he is and always has been delusional, and now he's super angry. Just not a good combination.

The House could impeach.
Warnock and Ossoff cannot be sworn in until after
Georgia certifies the votes on Jan. 22nd.
You can do the math.

Pence will not support Amendment 25 use as it would hurt his chances in 2024.

And his recent conciliatory video gives GOP some cover so as not to act.

He'll finish his term.

I wish the FBI could hold off on identifying the MAGA rioters by name for a couple of weeks. If Trump has their names, he can and will pardon them.

Yes (immediately prior), CHAS, and yes, likewise to Cindy's comments.

Too bad for him, he only spoke and projected such an image of a sane, genuinely patriotic person at the very last moment.

Agreed, that it will serve as an effective cover to the GOP to dodge an impeachment.

One can wish a rational listener would ask themselves (and him) how he can love and refer to as "great patriots" the same people he now refers to as unacceptably violent "intruders" who behaved "unconscionably in defacing our great Capitol and seat of our Republic." (paraphrase).

He paints them as dualistically as he presents himself. Guess those desperate to continue to deify him and justify their worship of him, will just hear the parts they want to.

As an opinion piece in the NYTimes declared, he has always been "a wolf in wolf's clothing."

Bolton says we shouldn't use the 25th... his very lame explanation seems to amount to "it's a very poorly written piece of law" and "it would set a bad precedent".

I don't think either of those should be a consideration now. I-1 is armed and dangerous. His staff describe him as unhinged and mentally "unreachable". This is not someone who should be allowed around sharp objects, much less the nuclear codes.

The alternatives to 25

https://www.axios.com/trump-ad...cf-0ba1d873cee4.html

quote:

Originally posted by wtg:

On the other hand, he is still president and wields a lot of power. He could do some major league damage in the next 13 days, militarily or otherwise.

Well, this makes me feel a little better, though I"m not sure she should have publicized it...

quote:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi spoke with the nation's top military officer on Friday about precautions in place to prevent President Donald Trump from ordering a nuclear strike or conducting other military hostilities as Democrats seek his removal from office.

The stunning revelation came in a letter from the speaker to House Democrats outlining next steps following a violent breach of the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday by Trump supporters. Pelosi said she spoke to Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley about guardrails in place that could prevent "an unstable president" from wielding the military or the country's nuclear arsenal.

"This morning, I spoke to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley to discuss available precautions for preventing an unstable president from initiating military hostilities or accessing the launch codes and ordering a nuclear strike," Pelosi said in the letter.

"The situation of this unhinged President could not be more dangerous, and we must do everything that we can to protect the American people from his unbalanced assault on our country and our democracy," she added.

Milley's spokesperson, Col. Dave Butler, said Pelosi initiated the call with the chairman. "He answered her questions regarding the process of nuclear command authority.”

https://www.politico.com/news/...nuclear-codes-456529