Darwinism?

Tribalism. They’re not moving to CA.

OTOH, this is a problem that the market will fix shortly. Make ag water cost as much as municipal water and the problem goes away. Maricopa County [Full disclosure - I own property there] is considering legislation to that affect at this very moment.

It’s already happened in West TX. The cost of electricity to run the pumps in West TX exceeds the value of the alfalfa once grown there. The Cadillac Desert guy predicted this in the 90’s and it has come to pass - as foretold in the prophecy.

The Central Valley in CA was in trouble before this latest drought. Decades of irrigation have left the land with far too much salt and the aquifers far too deep to pump out economically. They haven’t grown alfalfa for years and cotton is but a memory. Almonds then, for export, along with table grapes, but neither crop justifies the cost of pumping water these days. It’s instructional to note that most Central Valley land is owned by oil companies. They’ll have to make $ some other way but few will mourn their predicament. Rice is still grown there (“Calrose” - an export crop), but that’s likely to change. Rice. Rice!

Less sure is the Imperial Valley. Water comes from the Colorado and they grow more valuable crops. Citrus (mostly export - CA citrus comes from FL, where water is not an issue but frost decidedly *is*) truck crops like tomatoes and celery. It remains to be seen where they’ll stand when allocation of water from the river is reviewed, but I suspect a lot of that business will move to Mexico. It’s already happening - most of the tomatoes we get in OH are from Mexico except during peak summer season. We also get veg from Canada where it seems drought isn’t an issue.

In fact, drought isn’t an an issue in most of the US. It’s just that ag is marginally more profitable in the desert if water is cheap enough. Change that and the problem looks quite different. Fold in Indian lands and it gets even messier.

We haven’t discussed golf courses and factories. The God-given right to make a profit from an increasingly scarce public resource is about to be sorely tested.

Clash of the Titans, indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by wtg:

quote:

People are still flocking to Sunbelt regions where the housing is cheaper and plentiful — but climate change and extreme weather are worsening.

https://www.vox.com/2022/8/28/...t-housing-population

Still more confusion in deciding where to move for "retirement".

And the author didn't even refer to hurricanes and land sinking in Florida - one of (if not THE) most popular retirement destinations.

We wanted to move to the coast, and erosion by the sea was a constant consideration on the East coast of England, ruled out Lincolnshire completely.

There's currently the annual hosepipe ban in the south of England, but we never once thought about drinking water shortages or prices as a factor of where to move.

I guess the UK is small enough to pipe water about in many areas, for example Kielder reservoir in Northumberland supplements the rivers Tyne, Derwent, Wear, and Tees when water levels fall.

People bitch and moan about the cold and snow in the northeast, but dammit, we have water and fewer natural disasters (floods, fires, tornadoes etc.) Although it’s getting drier here too.

I can't imagine not including climate change in decisions about where to move... Although, having said that, I know that often (almost always?) people don't have choices about where to move, they go where they can find work.

I am pretty sure I posted here (I think it was last year) about a job posting for a uni in California, the job description was like my dream job. In the end, I didn't end up applying, there were several reasons for that, but climate change, cost of housing, water problems, fire problems, absolutely were at the top of my list in making that decision.

I also wouldn't entertain a move to Florida or a move to a coastal area for similar reasons.

What's more tricky, to my mind, are midwestern states. Although at this point, I'm not planning on going back on the job market, so it's not super relevant.

quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
What's more tricky, to my mind, are midwestern states. Although at this point, I'm not planning on going back on the job market, so it's not super relevant.

I'm curious about what you find tricky about midwestern states. Climate factors or something else?

Big Al

quote:

Climate factors

Yes, I meant climate. I grew up in the midwest, did undergrad and grad school in various locations in the midwest and have family there. So in theory I would consider moving back there, but it's not clear to me how climate change is impacting places I once lived.

Tornadoes have always been a problem, but it seems like they're getting worse and popping up in more places than they used to. Heat and drought are worse than they used to be.

Those are the main ones that come to mind.

I cannot deal with the hot humid weather that I grew up in. (Central Illinois).

I'm by no means a water expert, especially regarding a place as complicated as Arizona and their water laws. However, the Inflation Reduction Act did contain something to send a chunk of money (as in a few billion) to Arizona to help pay farmers who voluntarily reduce their water usage. I believe the main goal here (beyond the obvious of not putting farmers into bankruptcy) is to increase/replenish ground water tables, which have been bled dry.

But will it really matter when Arizona also has this boneheaded approach to water use?

From the link:

Arizona is leasing farmland to a Saudi water company, straining aquifers, and threatening future water supply in Phoenix. Fondomonte, a Saudi company, exports the alfalfa to feed its cows in the Middle East. The country has practically exhausted its own underground aquifers there. In Arizona, Fondomonte can pump as much water as it wants at no cost.

[The estimate of this free water, at market cost, is $3M - $3.9M/year]

quote:

Fondomonte, a Saudi company, exports the alfalfa to feed its cows in the Middle East. The country has practically exhausted its own underground aquifers there. In Arizona, Fondomonte can pump as much water as it wants at no cost.

The West is extremely hot today.
It got up to 81 at 9000 feet.
We are getting less snow.
We only get mosquitoes in a wet year. Saw none this year. We got a few grasshoppers.
Blizzards seem to be a thing of the past here.
The air at 9000 feet is too thin for tornadoes.
Hail does not get to drop and rise and grow like it does elsewhere. Hailstones are a bit larger than sleet and very uncommon.
Sometimes i think it feels humid. Then I recall humidity in Missouri near the Mississippi River and Florida in early August.
It is crowded on weekends, but school starts soon and that will end.

And yet they still grow alfalfa within the city limits.

Alfalfa.