Take a representative sample of 75,000 U.S. adults, and Covid has killed 150 of them.

A typical flu season kills between 5 and 15 out of every 75,000 U.S. adults.

How many of the 75,000 people who’ve received a Covid vaccine have died? Zero.

Can you share some data on the long term effects of the Covid-19 vaccine, the effects of receiving the vaccine more than once, the effects of receiving vaccines by different manufacturers, and the effectiveness of the vaccine at 6 months, a year, and 18 months?

I’ve been trying to get answers and I’m not finding it yet.

Cindy — who did learn that CDC recommends not getting shingles vaccine if planning to get COVID vaccine

You know that doesn't exist yet.

What does exist is expert opinion on what the risks are. People who are doctors, who have spent their career working with vaccines and infectious diseases, those sorts of people.

I'm not aware of a single credible one who says, don't get the vaccine because we don't know about the long-term effects yet.

Do you? I'd be very interested to hear the rationale of a doctor, one with an immunology background of some sort, maybe worked at the CDC, and who isn't a Scott Atlas-wannabe, for why people shouldn't get the vaccine yet. Maybe the media sources I see just don't report about those people's opinions, so please do share.

If the data doesn’t exist, opinions of experts aren’t based on much.

I have no problem if folks choose to take the vaccine based on the opinions of experts who do not yet have data.

But let’s not pretend this issue is open and shut.

As Jon asked before, do you know the long term effects of COVID infection?

No?

So the very hypothetical risk you avoid by not getting vaccinated ... and "experts" do know how the vaccines were made and thus do have good reasons to think that there will be no more long term complications than from other well-used vaccines ... has to be compared to the long term risks of getting the disease. These are clearly not insubstantial, since many people have suffered long term consequences of infection.

And getting the disease certainly happens to good people who wear masks and take all the usual precautions.

Mmmm, I and a fair number of health care workers will hold off.

The weird thing is that people who are eager to get the vaccine are so invested if someone says they’re going to wait until more information is available. I mean, why do those people care? If people like me hold off, you should be delighted to move to the front of the line.

I think people with the greatest need should go first if they want, and I wouldn’t feel right about cutting the line anyway.

So I will wait. I think the optimal time for me will be October. Just in time for holiday travel, just in time for a winter spike.

But if it turns out the vaccine being given now has problems, do me a solid and let me know, ok?

quote:

The weird thing is that people who are eager to get the vaccine are so invested if someone says they’re going to wait until more information is available. I mean, why do those people care? If people like me hold off, you should be delighted to move to the front of the line.

Because everyone who isn't vaccinated is one more opportunity for an infection that mutates. It puts everyone at risk.

However, if you think the optimal time is October, that probably would not slow down vaccinations. As you say, you are simply allowing someone else to have first access to a limited vaccine.

However, you won't have any clue about long-term effects by October, so, if you are waiting for data on long-term effects, your suggested date does not make logical sense.

Cindy, your position makes absolutely no sense.

We can only hope you are one of those who gets only mild case, and the same for others you infect.

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
As Jon asked before, do you know the long term effects of COVID infection?

No?

So the very hypothetical risk you avoid by not getting vaccinated ... and "experts" do know how the vaccines were made and thus do have good reasons to think that there will be no more long term complications than from other well-used vaccines ... has to be compared to the long term risks of getting the disease. These are clearly not insubstantial, since many people have suffered long term consequences of infection.

And getting the disease certainly happens to good people who wear masks and take all the usual precautions.

This is pretty much where I'm at. As I see it, I can either stay in seclusion indefinitely and maybe get covid anyway and therefore spin the roulette wheel that I won't end up dead or disabled. Or I can take my chances with a vaccine that, so far, has pretty good stats.

Kind of a no-brainer under the circumstances. This is very different than opting out of the flu shot.

I'm getting my covid shot the second my number comes up.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Mmmm, I and a fair number of health care workers will hold off.

They need to be fired immediately.

At my wife's office, every health worker who has held off is African American. This is a big social problem with no easy solution.

I can`t understand why some people are so reluctant to get vaccinated (referring to the "new" mRNA based vaccines by Biontech/Pfizer and moderna).

Please don´t forget:
If you don´t get vaccinated, you will quite probably be infected by Coronavirus somewhen.
Three things can happen:
You will have spike-proteins in your body,
1) and with some luck, you will produce antibodies, Tcells and NKcells and survive the infection without long-covid-syndrome.
2) You survive, but as the virus can attack any organ in your body, you devlop long-covid-syndome. Some people have not recovered after several months yet.
3) You die a miserable death in intensive care.

If you get vaccinated, following scenarios can happen:
You will have spike protein in your body, because the mRNA of the vaccine will make your body produce it. But instead of a deadly virus attached, there are two tiny molecules, which scream "I´m bad, kill me" latched onto the spike protein.

What could happen?
1) You are allergic to these molecules and suffer a shock. Thats why people with a history of strong (!) alleric reactions should be careful.
2) You build up a very strong immune-response and live happily ever after. The mRNA will vanish very quickly from your system (hours/days), because thats what your body does with mRNA.
3) You get a long-term illnes from your vaccination. Has never happened within the first year after vaccination. Even if there should be something, would it be worse than long-covid-syndrome?

Isn´t it encouraging not to find point 3) (i.e. miserable death in intensive care) in the post-vaccination outcomes?
Please get vaccinated. Stay healthy, everyone.

What pique and Martin and others said.

Cindy, I don't think the certainty you are looking for exists, nor will it ever exist. We already know that chances are really good that there will never be one vaccine that protects against all strains forever with one shot, no boosters. Viruses don't work that way.

While there may be a theoretical possibility of long term side effects from the vaccine, the reality that we are living with is that this virus is deadly and that people who get it often die or have long term side effects.

Even if you've managed to avoid getting COVID up till now, it's going to be a lot harder to fly under the radar as the more contagious strains take hold. It's turning into a game of viral Russian roulette and there are more bullets getting loaded in the gun as time marches on.

Something to consider as far as a lot of health care workers refusing the vaccine....

It takes a lot of people to support a long term care facility or hospital. That includes janitorial and kitchen staff, who though they have no medical background are eligible under the guidelines to receive the vaccine as a health care worker because of the nature of their jobs. Their refusal to get the vaccine probably doesn't have a lot of science behind it.

Should also be noted that as time moves on, a lot of those people are changing their minds and getting the shot as they see their co-workers getting it and having no problems.

I understand the hesitancy at a lot of levels. I sure as heck wasn't in line signing up to volunteer in a clinical trial. But I've seen way more than I need to at this point (people getting seriously sick and some dying), and I'll be getting the shot when I can.

Why are you people so freaked out if someone doesn’t want a vaccine that they can’t even get?

It’s bizarre.

I have the same risk as most of you, because you haven’t been vaccinated either.

The difference is that you’re all stressed and kind of judgy and I’m chill.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Why are you people so freaked out if someone doesn’t want a vaccine that they can’t even get?

It’s bizarre.

I have the same risk as most of you, because you haven’t been vaccinated either.

The difference is that you’re all stressed and kind of judgy and I’m chill.

I don't see anyone being freaked out or judgy. I see people thinking logically about a challenging situation.

You aren't one of those logical people in this case. That's not judgy. Its just a fact.