quote:

Why are you people so freaked out if someone doesn’t want a vaccine that they can’t even get?

Why would someone who can't get a vaccine continue posting about why they wouldn't get it even if they could ...

Got the second shot today.
The only side effects are from the Benedryl I took an hour before and the another Benedryl I took 20 minutes afterward.
Some pollens and some drugs make my face swell, sometimes to a freaky look that scares people.
I am home.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Why are you people so freaked out if someone doesn’t want a vaccine that they can’t even get?

It’s bizarre.

I have the same risk as most of you, because you haven’t been vaccinated either.

The difference is that you’re all stressed and kind of judgy and I’m chill.

You don't think you're judgy?

Interesting.

As for your first question, because the attitude might affect people you know who CAN get the vaccine.

quote:

who did learn that CDC recommends not getting shingles vaccine if planning to get COVID vaccine

This part intrigued me, but it turns out that it's incomplete information. The recommendation is that you wait at least two weeks between taking the COVID vax and taking (any other) vax, including shingles. That's true in both directions (taking COVID vax first, then shingles or vice versa). This guidance is not due to anything about the shingles vax per se, but is a general precaution for any vaccine combination where the interactions are not fully known.

That said, I took my first shingles shot and my flu shot at the same time (different arms because I'm not a freak). I lived.

quote:

Originally posted by CHAS:
Got the second shot today.
The only side effects are from the Benedryl I took an hour before and the another Benedryl I took 20 minutes afterward.
Some pollens and some drugs make my face swell, sometimes to a freaky look that scares people.
I am home.

Another friend had her second dose yesterday; said she felt like she got hit by a truck. Also brain fog; she said she could barely figure out how to tie her shoes. She's better today but still pretty tired and figures she should be better tomorrow. No regrets getting the shot. She said she'd rather feel crummy for a few days from the vaccine than for weeks with the real thing....

So....the PSA here is that maybe having slip-on shoes available for a few days after the second shot is a good idea...

quote:

Originally posted by Nina:

quote:

who did learn that CDC recommends not getting shingles vaccine if planning to get COVID vaccine

This part intrigued me, but it turns out that it's incomplete information. The recommendation is that you wait at least two weeks between taking the COVID vax and taking (any other) vax, including shingles. That's true in both directions (taking COVID vax first, then shingles or vice versa). This guidance is not due to anything about the shingles vax per se, but is a general precaution for any vaccine combination where the interactions are not fully known.

That said, I took my first shingles shot and my flu shot at the same time (different arms because I'm not a freak). I lived.

That’s right, based on what I read. Spacing vaccines out is nothing new. But when you can’t know
When you can get one dose of the COVID vaccine let alone two, I think I will hold off and keep my options open.

As for the flu, I haven’t seen data on how effective this years shot was, but flu transmission was very low Last time I checked. This was a very good year to have skipped the vaccine.

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:

...As for the flu, I haven’t seen data on how effective this years shot was, but flu transmission was very low Last time I checked. This was a very good year to have skipped the vaccine.

Ha! I guess any year in which the general population were social distancing, masking, and doing their damndest to stay healthy , would be a good year to skip the flu vaccine if one were so inclined. Doubt many are even catching colds this time around.

I definitely am going to hang on to some practices we've learned because I haven't had a cold for a long time now...

Saw my sports medicine doc today. He's had two doses of the Moderna vaccine. He said the second dose was awful, knocked him flat for a couple of days. But he said the Pfizer second dose won't do that.

I mentioned this to a health journalist friend this evening and she said clinical trials support my doc's observation. Glad Mr Pique is already scheduled for his second Pfizer.

quote:

Originally posted by CHAS:
Got the second shot today.
The only side effects are from the Benedryl I took an hour before and the another Benedryl I took 20 minutes afterward.
Some pollens and some drugs make my face swell, sometimes to a freaky look that scares people.
I am home.

I would probably do this.

But, there is no vaccine available to me.

Also, the vaccine makers were the ones who said you need two shots.

Now they are saying you need to get one first and think about the second one later.

Nope.

quote:

Originally posted by wtg:
What pique and Martin and others said.

Cindy, I don't think the certainty you are looking for exists, nor will it ever exist. We already know that chances are really good that there will never be one vaccine that protects against all strains forever with one shot, no boosters. Viruses don't work that way.

While there may be a theoretical possibility of long term side effects from the vaccine, the reality that we are living with is that this virus is deadly and that people who get it often die or have long term side effects.

Even if you've managed to avoid getting COVID up till now, it's going to be a lot harder to fly under the radar as the more contagious strains take hold. It's turning into a game of viral Russian roulette and there are more bullets getting loaded in the gun as time marches on.

Something to consider as far as a lot of health care workers refusing the vaccine....

It takes a lot of people to support a long term care facility or hospital. That includes janitorial and kitchen staff, who though they have no medical background are eligible under the guidelines to receive the vaccine as a health care worker because of the nature of their jobs. Their refusal to get the vaccine probably doesn't have a lot of science behind it.

Should also be noted that as time moves on, a lot of those people are changing their minds and getting the shot as they see their co-workers getting it and having no problems.

I understand the hesitancy at a lot of levels. I sure as heck wasn't in line signing up to volunteer in a clinical trial. But I've seen way more than I need to at this point (people getting seriously sick and some dying), and I'll be getting the shot when I can.

But it's not, "the shot." I have a problem with the same corporations saying you need two of our shots, whoops, there aren't enough, so take one. The booster was only supposed to be three weeks from the first shot.

The latest research suggests the booster may be more effective if it's taken in three months rather than one month. But the CDC hasn't updated its guidance yet.

Daniel, I guess I have a slightly different way of looking at it that I'd like to throw out there for consideration.

Last year, the vaccine manufacturers opted to try their vaccines using a particular protocol. They based their trials on what we generally know about coronaviruses and vaccinations. They set up trials using a set of parameters that they tested on X people, and after they were done they got some efficacy numbers. That doesn't mean that's the best and only way to approach vaccination. It's a "point in time" recommendation with some experiments to back it up.

Pfizer and Moderna at their core use the same technology, yet they were tested with different first/second shot intervals. AstraZeneca is a two dose regimen based on different technology than P and M. And Johnson and Johnson uses a third approach; it was tested as a one dose protocol.

While the trials were happening the world and the virus weren't standing still. Several separate virus mutations appeared in the UK, South Africa, and Brazil. These new versions of the virus spread more quickly. More infections mean more people in the hospital overwhelming the system and more people dying. J&J, whose trials were held more recently, had the good fortune to pick the US, UK, and South Africa. That means their results give us an idea of how well a vaccine might work against the various strains already in circulation.

Despite the differences in technology and trial parameters, we learned something important and amazing: Turns out they were universally good at keeping people out of hospitals and alive no matter which one you pick. We went from nearly powerless to having multiple tools for fighting the virus.

Regarding First Dose specifically....

Time is against us. If you take into consideration how many more people will get sick with the new more virulent strains (that will become dominant) as opposed to the original virus, it turns out that you may save more lives by the one dose approach than you would in vaccinating people fully. You're trying to get ahead of the more virulent strains and preventing them from becoming the predominant strain.

The two dose vaccines afford some amount of protection even after one dose; we have data for that from some of the original studies. The UK decided to go the one dose approach because they were going to be overwhelmed by the new more transmissable strain.

They have some data coming in from their real world experiment that I posted in a separate thread. I'll repost the bit I quoted in that thread:

quote:

Oxford researchers found that the Covid vaccine was 76% effective at preventing symptomatic infection for three months after a single dose, and in fact that the efficacy rate rose with a longer interval between the first and second doses.

A delay in the second dose means more people can get their first vaccines sooner because it eases a tight supply.

“Vaccine efficacy after a single standard dose of vaccine from day 22 to day 90 post vaccination was 76% ... and modelled analysis indicated that protection did not wane during this initial 3 month period,” the study found. It was published on Tuesday as a preprint and is under review at The Lancet medical journal.

The efficacy rate rose to 82.4% when there was at least a 12-week interval before the second dose. When the second dose was given less than six weeks after the first one, the efficacy rate was 54.9%.

“These analyses show that higher vaccine efficacy is obtained with a longer interval between the first and second dose, and that a single dose of vaccine is highly efficacious in the first 90 days, providing further support for current policy,” the report said.

So it looks like the Brits made an educated modification to the original protocol and it seems to be paying off in spades.

Anyway...I don't see a change in vaccine approach as a "whoops" but rather an evolution in thinking. The virus is a moving target. When the parameters change, your approach may change. You make the best decision you can given the information you have at a point in time.

quote:

You make the best decision you can given the information you have at a point in time.

+1000

We don't live in a world of perfect information, and waiting for perfect information has its own costs.

Tired today.
Was planning to ski if I could get my bindings
adjusted to my new boots.
Got fresh snow.
Will not be skiing.

Got my second dose of the Moderna vax yesterday morning. The woman who gave it to me said I would likely feel pretty bad within 6-8 hours (just in time for me to head into work in the evening) so I warned them I might not make it in. I felt fine though, and made it through work and back home. I was actually all "I wish I'd feel something so I would know for sure it was working" when the chills started - no fever, but I had about 3 hours of shivery miserable chills that lasted til about 130am. Today I have a headache and maybe a bit more tired than usual, but assuming that was the worst of it, it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected.