WTG, good to know!

P.S. we went to see a house this morning, knowing that it would likely need a lot of work.... Well, "a lot of work" was an understatement! Yikes. House is from mid-1990s, only the entryway had the original flooring, all the other rooms (first and second floors) had flooring was in no way coordinated with that in other rooms, and looked like it was installed by a 3 year old.

What else did we see? Serious, scary looking cracks on walls. Sign of roof leak, water damage in bathroom, filthy tub and shower stall... kitchen cabinets looked like they endured years of abuse...

The whole house looks like it needs to be gutted. Besides the money that would be required, the amount of time, coordination and project management would be off the charts.

Our response? Let a flipper do it.

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Originally posted by Steve Miller:

quote:

Originally posted by QuirtEvans:

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Originally posted by Lisa:
Not sure if this was addressed upthread, but a 22 year old roof is likely going to be a problem from a homeowners insurance standpoint. Our roof is 18 years old right now (and we used top of the line "lifetime guarantee" very expensive shingles, but the insurance doesn't care) and we recently tried to shop our policy. Several companies would not even consider us because of the age of our roof. The agents we talked to said most insurers won't take a roof >20 years old and several have recently dropped it to 15 years....which is crazy because who gets a new roof every 15 years?!?!

We just insured a 140 year-old roof.

Of course, it’s slate.

Did you find someone to replace the cracked slate? It’s a dying art and needs to be done before the last of the slaters retire.

We’ve got a very good guy and he’s incredibly responsive. He was looking for a slate that would match. I need to check in with him.

Yeah, he’s around my age.

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Originally posted by ShiroKuro:

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If you really like the house you have nothing to lose by submitting a backup offer.

This is the part that's not clear to me.... I just got off the phone with my agent again.

So we make an offer, they accept, we do an inspection, it flags some big ticket problem. My understanding is, we can't pull out at that point, we have to make a response. Say the response is "repair X and give price reduction for Y." Then the seller can do "all of it, some of it, or none of it." I think we can pull out if they say "some/none."

Right?

Anyway, my agent reached out to the seller's agent again and let them know we're still interested, and we have an appointment to go see it again first thing tomorrow morning. (Tuesdays are our worst days for house hunting bc I have to be on campus all day and Mr. SK works until almost 8pm, so we can't go see it today)

But you're right, I think we need to make a back up and then see what happens.... But we want to go stomping around the house, backyard, garage again first.

grab this house if you can. in my experience, with an inspection contingency you can walk away and you don't have to give a reason and you do not have to even disclose what the inspector found. you do have to have the inspection, however, to back out on the basis of the inspection.

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finding a house that we like, in a location we want, at a price we can afford.

kinda like the old saw, "pick two: fast, cheap, done right."


I saw that the backup offer house didn't work out after I wrote my latest post. Sorry to hear. I didn't see what was up with the foundation, but these things can look scarier than they really are.

I've had a roof replaced and windows replaced. Windows were *much* easier--and cheaper.

It must depend on the part of the country--we've never had any of these problems with insurance companies. I had a house with a 40 year old roof growing moss insured by State Farm. Traveller's replaced our entire barn roof a couple of years ago, even though the roof needed to be replaced before 60 mph winds blew it into the next county. Traveler's also replaced my truck transmission after the mechanic destroyed it by not hooking up the tranny cooler to the radiator after he replaced the radiator. They also replaced our entire house roof last year, even though the old shingles were known to be defective, after another wind storm. Only a small area of the roof lost shingles, but our roofer convinced them that the rest of the roof needed replacing too.

Maybe call Travelers. They are based in CT.

It’s too late (again), piqué. The original buyer is moving forward with the purchase. It’s probably for the best. But also disappointing.

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in my experience, with an inspection contingency you can walk away and you don't have to give a reason and you do not have to even disclose what the inspector found. you do have to have the inspection, however, to back out on the basis of the inspection.

I don’t think that’s the case … I will look again at the blank contract I got from my agent as a sample, but my understanding is that when the seller accepts your offer (with a “contingent on inspection” clause), you have to come back with a response and give them a chance to respond. You could respond “fix x, y, and z before closing” or “lower the price because of this reason.” Then they have the option to do “all of it/some of it/none of it.” If they don’t do “all of it,” that’s when you can pull out.

I believe you don’t have to provide the actual inspection report, but you have to give a reason. I don’t think you can pull out without that.

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Traveler's also replaced my truck transmission after the mechanic destroyed it by not hooking up the tranny cooler to the radiator after he replaced the radiator.

Wow! I remember that story. Hard to believe the mechanic didn’t step up. What an ass!

But what kind of auto policy do you carry that would cover something like that? Is it special rider or something? I’ve never heard of such a thing.

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I believe you don’t have to provide the actual inspection report, but you have to give a reason. I don’t think you can pull out without that.

The way I’ve seen it done is that the contract says you have the right to approve the findings of the home inspector. If you don’t want the house any more you state that you don’t approve the house inspection and walk away. Or, if you’d rather, you negotiate seller repairs and/or price reduction to fix whatever you don’t like.

It’s in the seller’s best interest to let you out of the deal if you don't want to go through with it. The open escrow will make selling to someone else a messy deal - not impossible but messy. S/he will also play hell with the escrow company trying to receive your deposit (escrows don’t do anything without signatures from both parties) and will probably have to sue for it. The selling agent will push hard to cancel the deal - houses that don’t sell don’t make money and it sounds like your area is a pretty hot market.

And unless there is something substantially wrong with the place you probably want it anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by piqué:
It must depend on the part of the country--we've never had any of these problems with insurance companies. I had a house with a 40 year old roof growing moss insured by State Farm. Traveller's replaced our entire barn roof a couple of years ago, even though the roof needed to be replaced before 60 mph winds blew it into the next county. Traveler's also replaced my truck transmission after the mechanic destroyed it by not hooking up the tranny cooler to the radiator after he replaced the radiator. They also replaced our entire house roof last year, even though the old shingles were known to be defective, after another wind storm. Only a small area of the roof lost shingles, but our roofer convinced them that the rest of the roof needed replacing too.

Maybe call Travelers. They are based in CT.

Our agent told me Travelers specifically is one of the firms that won't write new policies on a roof older than 15 years. I believe the change was just within the last year as I know he quoted me a policy from Travelers last time I shopped.

I'm happy you got your whole roof replaced from just a small area of storm damage, but I would imagine that multiplying that by thousands upon thousands of customers all getting brand new replacements for their end-of-life roofs on the insurance company's dime is exactly what is leading these companies to tighten their policies.

quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
It’s too late (again), piqué. The original buyer is moving forward with the purchase. It’s probably for the best. But also disappointing.

quote:

in my experience, with an inspection contingency you can walk away and you don't have to give a reason and you do not have to even disclose what the inspector found. you do have to have the inspection, however, to back out on the basis of the inspection.

I don’t think that’s the case … I will look again at the blank contract I got from my agent as a sample, but my understanding is that when the seller accepts your offer (with a “contingent on inspection” clause), you have to come back with a response and give them a chance to respond. You could respond “fix x, y, and z before closing” or “lower the price because of this reason.” Then they have the option to do “all of it/some of it/none of it.” If they don’t do “all of it,” that’s when you can pull out.

I believe you don’t have to provide the actual inspection report, but you have to give a reason. I don’t think you can pull out without that.

i have walked away without giving a reason. so YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:

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Traveler's also replaced my truck transmission after the mechanic destroyed it by not hooking up the tranny cooler to the radiator after he replaced the radiator.

Wow! I remember that story. Hard to believe the mechanic didn’t step up. What an ass!

But what kind of auto policy do you carry that would cover something like that? Is it special rider or something? I’ve never heard of such a thing.

yup. his mishandling of this cost me a lot more than the $1,000 deductible. it ruined about five months of my life.

but i did find a great tranny rebuilder, who sent me to a good mechanic, so that was a win.

we don't have any kind of special rider. in fact, i hadn't a clue that insurance could cover this until a guy at the Quadrasteer forums told me to ask them.

lucky for me the tranny rebuilder backed me up on this and worked really well with the insurance claims guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Lisa:

quote:

Originally posted by piqué:
It must depend on the part of the country--we've never had any of these problems with insurance companies. I had a house with a 40 year old roof growing moss insured by State Farm. Traveller's replaced our entire barn roof a couple of years ago, even though the roof needed to be replaced before 60 mph winds blew it into the next county. Traveler's also replaced my truck transmission after the mechanic destroyed it by not hooking up the tranny cooler to the radiator after he replaced the radiator. They also replaced our entire house roof last year, even though the old shingles were known to be defective, after another wind storm. Only a small area of the roof lost shingles, but our roofer convinced them that the rest of the roof needed replacing too.

Maybe call Travelers. They are based in CT.

Our agent told me Travelers specifically is one of the firms that won't write new policies on a roof older than 15 years. I believe the change was just within the last year as I know he quoted me a policy from Travelers last time I shopped.

I'm happy you got your whole roof replaced from just a small area of storm damage, but I would imagine that multiplying that by thousands upon thousands of customers all getting brand new replacements for their end-of-life roofs on the insurance company's dime is exactly what is leading these companies to tighten their policies.

well, then. mea culpa.

most of the houses in our valley needed new roofs after that wind storm. but those storms don't happen every year. i'm not shedding any tears over the insurance companies' balance sheets. they make sure they make money or they won't insure. which is i guess what happened with the recent new rule on 15 year old roofs.

i think they have a bigger problem with people choosing to live where there is high risk of wildfire, flooding, and hurricanes. i have heard they are no longer willing to insure at all in some of those places.

we are getting wildfire mitigation done on our property--actually the whole neighborhood is doing it together. there is grant money...

Since this is "THE house hunting thread" and not specifically one person's by name, may I interject my own house hunting situation? Or do I need to start a new thread? I don't think I can provide as much interest as SK, so I'll just make this one post and see where it goes... if that's a hijack, please do protest and I'll take it down.

I can't post a link to the house because the day we saw it was the last day it was on the market, and the listing is no longer online.

The reason it didn't sell is because there is no septic permit of record, and the sellers put in the disclosure that they have never cleaned out/serviced the septic tank in the 25 years they lived there. The house was built in the 1950s, when this neighborhood was all farms (there are still a lot of farms, but not as many). They were asking $800k+ at first, then steadily dropped it until their most recent asking was $688k. We've been told by the seller's agent to not even think of offering less than $650k. Basically, the house is as-is as the sellers aren't willing to fix the situation or give consideration for it.

As I've posted elsewhere, finding a house in Missoula is tough. There's very little on the market, and what is on the market in our price range is not anything I want to live in. But this house hits a lot of our "wants":

Beautifully remodeled kitchen and dining room with a view
A second living room that will make a perfect concert venue/salon gathering space with the piano.
A first living room with beautiful windows and a view of the mountains that would be perfect for holding writing workshops and other sorts of casual gatherings.
A master bedroom suite with a fireplace, walk in shower, and large soaking tub with a window, facing the rear of the property. Also has doors that open out to a south facing sunny deck.
Enough acreage that we are allowed to keep the horses at home, should we decide to.
Across the street is a trail that leads to state lands and a municipal horse park.
Two blocks away is a dog park and dedicated dog agility course!
A main floor office with french doors and a bay window with a view
A second main floor bedroom
Two main level full bathrooms, one downstairs full bathroom
Two really nice bedrooms in the remodeled basement
A huge den downstairs with a gas fireplace.
Attached two car garage with plenty of room for a workshop
Fully fenced yard, covered rear patio, lots of nice old trees.

For us, the interior is very livable.

It is just a couple of blocks from a hospital, and in the disclosure they said there can be life flight helicopters coming in at very low altitude at any time of day or night.

There are some pretty junky properties on either side of this property--trailers and trash, etc. But they are only visible from the street, as this house has quite tall fences obscuring them. Still, it could get noisy from having multiple neighbors to either side.

We decided to have a septic guy come and take a look at what would be involved in putting in a new tank and drain field. there's just too many unknowns to get a firm price, and there is no way to know where the health department will make them put it. Meaning it could interfere with stabling horses, or could require cutting down trees. But at minimum it would be $25k to put in a new septic and connect it to the house, or, it could be as much as $40k if they have to run a longer line to the back of the property, remove trees, or if the existing tank is under the patio or the deck. Plus there is a well back there somewhere....

Right now the sellers are out of town, so we're waiting to hear if they'll even entertain an offer at this point. They had decided to rent it out rather than take less than their asking. However, if I were them there is no way in hell I would rent out a property that needs a new septic field. They could get sued if it backs up or floods.

Does this sound like something worth pursuing? Or am I just exhausted and desperate to make something work after looking off and on for over three years?

It's hard to say what the property would be worth with a new septic installed, and our realtor hasn't yet seen it herself--she had one of her assistants show it to us.

We would offer close to $650k as-is, but would have a contingency to back out if we don't like the look of the inspection report. In other words, we don't expect them to negotiate on an inspection, but we can walk away if other stuff comes up that makes the whole project untenable.

quote:

i have walked away without giving a reason. so YMMV.

I don't know if there are any state laws that are relevant, or if maybe my agent is giving me the impression that this is less of an option than it really is... I don't know. If we find another house we want to make an offer on, I will clarify this though, because it's pretty important! I have a blank buy/sell contract (or whatever it's called) so I need to look through that again.