The inmates are running the asylum

I had multiple conversations with a friend over a weekend where he spouted all of the circular-reasoned talking points... sigh

1. Masks don't work against respiratory illness - and states that did nothing did just as well as those that locked down and masked.
2. Vaccines don't help and cause more problems (so many miscarrages!) Follow the money, they are just selling this stuff and the big, bad government is supporting them
3. Doctors weren't allowed to treat those infected with drugs that are proven to work -Ivermectin! Intubating people kills them. Again, government controlling via those pulling the strings in the dark corners.

And on and on... I tried my best to "mayor Pete" the discussion - When he talked of government coming between doctors and patients because of Ivermectin, I suggested that was the same issue with access to abortion drugs and procedures...

I had a new appreciation for how smoothly Mayor Pete is able to pivot a conversation!

Not sure I see circular reasoning in those claims. I see simple assertions of facts that are wrong (vaccines don't help) and assertions about cause that are bogus (intubation kills, vaccination is all about money).

You're a saint for trying to reason with that friend.

Maybe "circular reasoning" is the wrong term.

But in the big picture of that world, the circle I was referring to was that all of those things seem to support each other.

Unvaxxed were dying - that's because the docs weren't allowed to use the proven drugs and killed them with intubating.

Masks don't work - (nevermind the medical staff successfully using N95s to protect themselves) so the government forcing citizens to use masks caused people to go out and get sick. Way less people would've gotten sick if they didn't mask.

(there were a lot of "way less" projections having to do with anything "imposed" by Dems!)

quote:

forcing citizens to use masks caused people to go out and get sick

A lot of people apparently really truly believe this.

In 2020 or 2021, one of my relatives was convinced that masks were making her (ES and JHS aged) kids get the worst colds they've ever had and of course passed those on to the parents. And this was quite specific: not that masks don't work, but that the masks were making them all sick. Turns out, the whole family was wearing cloth masks, and rotating between a small number of them, and maybe not actually washing them very often....

Given those details, it may indeed be the case that for them, the (cloth) masks were indeed making them sick.

But they have never (to my knowledge) made any connections between their mask practices, the types of masks, and mask efficacy. But they will happily tell anyone that masks make people sick and they know this firsthand.

Excellent reporting. ProPublica is just a fantastic resource. I'm sending them yet another donation.

I live in Helena. St. Peters is my local hospital. I knew Shirley Herrin--we belonged to the same riding club.

What went on here last year was frightening and inexcusable. Mr. Pique and I huddled at home on our 5 acres for many months, did not see people, and dreaded the possibility that one of us might have an accident or illness that required a hospital visit. There were refrigerated storage cars in the hospital parking lot--the morgue. The sane public health people were driven out by the lunatics. At the height of this is when I started seriously thinking about moving to western MA, possibly the most progressive and politically sane state in the country. Because even some of my supposedly liberal friends here were not taking Covid seriously and were falling prey to wild conspiracy theories. And getting sick.

The stupidity here continues. The county commissioners have demanded that all county employees return to working in person. No one in the city county building is wearing a mask except (I hope) my husband. No one is testing but the wastewater monitoring shows there is still a lot of Covid in the community. I can't wait for the new booster shot.

Agree about ProPublica. The first thing I did after Trump was elected was set up a monthly recurring donation to them. I can see no reason to end it....

I've come to realize that it's simply impossible to have a discussion when you are unable to agree on basic facts. It's also impossible to have a discussion when there is no logic to the conclusions.
"Masks cause COVID."
"Have you seen the statistics about how effective masks are in reducing COVID exposure"?
"I don't need to see the research, it's all fake." (option A)
"They're all sucking up to (the CDC, Fauci, big pharm)" (option B)
"They get paid to say that." (option C, and as someone who could use some cash, how do I get in on that gig?)
etc., etc.

You can't fight illogic with logic.