So I've had the C7 more than twenty years now. I've enjoyed the heck out of it. So have my kids and an array of friends and relatives, including some of you. There's technically room for it in the new house, but that's not how we want to use the space. It would either take up more of the living room than we want to sacrifice or I would have to a) find somebody willing to move it up a flight of stairs and b) sacrifice a big chunk of my office to it.

Whatever piano I end up with, I'm planning to put it in my second-floor office and arrange the space so that a few people could gather there for a small piano party or to play chamber music. (A writer's "office" is really just a comfy chair. The rest of the space is for books and whatever. A writing/music room is totally workable.) However, putting a seven-footer in that room would make it difficult to have people in there who aren't me.

So it's time to trade.

However, trading a big piano for a small piano of similar quality at a dealership is like setting $10,000 aflame. (Or, honestly, more.) I do not want to do this.

So what are this group's thoughts about how I should proceed? Should I try to sell my piano privately? I could then buy from a dealership, at least eliminating one side of that money-burning process. Or I could buy privately. If I buy privately, I will need a good tech, but I know that there are people here who will know techs in this area.

If I sell privately, how in the heck do I price it? There is a recent copy of The Piano Book on the moving van headed my way, and it will probably give me some guidance on that. I have been offered so little by dealers both here and in Oklahoma for the C7 as trade, consignment, and outright sale that I don't imagine I can get a whole lot in a private sale, but I can probably get more than what I've been offered...presuming somebody wants a big piano. (Do any of you want a big piano, priced to sell?)

Another option would be to donate it to a school or theater or place of worship and take the tax deduction, which honestly might be a better deal financially than to more or less give it to a dealer. And I'd feel better about it. I've found a place online called PianoFinders that purports to help with that process. Does anybody know anything about them?

Once I'm shed of my treasured musical companion of twenty years--the instrument that brought me here and directly resulted in my finding love and happiness --I can begin the fun process of shopping. I want a very small grand made by a reliable brand, something like a Yamaha C1. My sister may want to sell me her Yamaha GC1, so that is also an option, but I would have to pay somebody to move it here from Boston and I'd have to factor that into the equation. It will be with me for the rest of the time we're able to live independently, so it has to be one I'll enjoy playing. I'm not too worried about missing the sound of the big piano. It'll go in a smaller room, plus it's going into a house built of 140-year-old wood. We'll basically be living in an awesome soundboard.

I'm not sure whether everybody's still here or whether they've migrated over to the new board, so I'll probably post there, too.

I know you all have opinions. Tell me what you think!

MA, I would get your piano into tip-top shape and sell privately to get the best return. But I don’t know how active your local market is though. Unfortunately Yamahas, though good pianos, don’t command the prices of S&S or Mason. It would be a great piano for an advanced student, so it would be worth advertising it at music schools.

I am going through something similar. I have a Mason and Hamlin concert grand from 1928 (once rebuilt) but it needs a new action. It is so loud that I now wear special musician’s earplugs when practicing.

I’d like to trade (or partially trade) it for a top-grade 6 to 7 foot piano. I asked at Faust Harrison in NYC and they aren’t interested. I had a conversation with a guy on the FB M&H group, but then searched his name in PW and he apparently STOLE two Steinways from a longtime respected dealer.

I am in touch with Michael Harrison himself, and he is still in the piano business, affiliated with a rebuilder in Yonkers. He will be sending me some info on a Steinway B. We’ll see.

when i was neck deep in the piano business, i came to understand that ebay was the best way to privately sell a piano. rebuilders and technicians compete fiercely there for quality used pianos. but i don't know if a yamaha would garner that kind of interest. you could try that first.

i am curious why you want a baby grand instead of a quality upright. An upright Grotrian or Bechstein can play rings around just about any baby grand.

as for Piano Finders, not sure if it is the same organization, but Rich Diefenbeck was very involved in something like that, finding pianos for children's programs and the like. He is probably still on PW. He's a good guy, and trustworthy. His handle is Rich D.

I'll probably talk to Rich D pretty soon about donating.

As for whether I might get an upright, I grew up on an upright and I like them fine, but I like the action of a grand better than the action of an upright. I play for myself and I play better on a grand.

I also don't like the way an upright's sound is directed at my face. When I was singing a lot, I noticed that singing into a microphone that was turned off still felt vaguely amplified to me. I decided that what I felt was the sound bouncing off the diaphragm and back into my face. I much prefer the way a grand's sound fills a room. As it turns out, there's research indicating that part of our hearing comes through our skin. Here's an article about it from Scientific American: People Hear With Their Skin As Well As Their Ears.

This is related to something I've talked about at length with Quirt, which is why I don't want a high-quality digital piano. As with uprights, I've played digital pianos and I like them fine, but some of the sound (or perhaps it's better described as the experience of the sound) of an acoustic piano comes to the player through conduction. It's a visceral experience, literally, that can be felt in the bones.

quote:

i am curious why you want a baby grand instead of a quality upright. An upright Grotrian or Bechstein can play rings around just about any baby grand.

I have had this discussion with a lot of posters at PW, but I found that I much prefer the experienced of playing a grand, even a small one, to an upright.

When you play an upright, you have a wall of sound hitting you in the face all the time. And you’re sitting facing the wall. If you play with another musician (say, a violinist) there’s not many places she can stand, and if you want to make eye contact with her, you basically have to fully turn your face all the way to side. Worse (in my opinion) when you play an upright in an home, you will generally end up having your back to the people you play for. I always really hated that.

Sitting at a grand piano is such a different experience from that. I knew from the times I’d played grands in recitals, played other people’s grands and so on, that I loved sitting at and playing a grand piano. And after I got mine, playing with my violin friend was so much more fun, I could actually see her while we played.

And then there’s the action. I never owned an high-end upright, so I don’t know if there are upright actions that compete with the action in a grand, although I would guess there are. But although my Yamaha upright had very good action, the other uprights I owned (a Baldwin and a Petrof) were more just so-so. My Yamaha grand is miles above them in that regard.

Some people actually like (or prefer) that wall of sound you get with an upright. Or they so much prefer some acoustic qualities that they would pick a good upright over a small grand. But for me, the combination of what you get in a grand piano makes up for whatever it is I’m said to have lost because my piano is less than 6 feet long.

Also I found that (as we all know) not all small grands are created equal. If I could afford it, I might have purchased a new Boston grand, with the “fat tail” design (I don’t think that’s what they call it? Wide tail? Whatever).

Anyway, all the Boston grands I played that were sub-6’ were really nice. The one I would have considered was a model that is 5’4” that was just so rich and warm...

But I couldn’t find a good one on the used market. (I only found one used one on the market in the region I was in at the time, whereas I found tons of used Yamaha grands at dealers and from private sellers). So I got my Yahama C2 (5’8”) and of course as everyone here knows I am more than happy with this instrument. Of the models I had available to me, I much preferred the 5’8” length to the 5’4” models, but that might have been because they were all pretty old not well-maintained. And the only 5’ models I played were all older and generally unsatisfying. I’ve never played a new Yahama GB1 or whatever the designation for that 5’ piano is, so I don’t know how they sound. But the GC1 is 5’4” and a very nice instrument.

Since MA has owned this Yamaha for so long, I think she would probably be very happy with a Yamaha C1 or C2 instrument. Or if a new piano is an option, a Cx model (which I have not had the opportunity to play yet). The action will feel “like home” to her, and the sound will be very familiar even if it doesn’t compare to her C7.

That said, if MA is not like me, and likes playing an upright, that is a fine choice as well, and there are some very, very well-regarded uprights to choose from.

MA, have you played any non-Yamaha pianos that you like? (Of course Yamaha pianos are so ubiquitous on the used market that you will have lots of options if you’re buying used…)

"i am curious why you want a baby grand instead of a quality upright. An upright Grotrian or Bechstein can play rings around just about any baby grand."

I can't give you any advice but an upright Grotrian or Bechstein would be dream. The other company that intrigues me is Sauter.

I don't why I find Sauter intriguing.

I haven't played any of these pianos and haven't heard any of them being played, at least that I was aware of it.

I found PW because I wanted to window shop. I love.to window shop. It's one of my favorite things. I knew I couldn't afford a piano but reading about all companies and the off topic discussion were great.

The piano and the guitar are my favorite instruments.

That's how I fell down our this rabbit hole and find myself here today.

Good luck, MA.

Thanks, Daniel.

ShiroKuro and I cross-posted, and it sounds like we have similar tastes and priorities.

quote:

ShiroKuro and I cross-posted, and it sounds like we have similar tastes and priorities.

Yes, just noticed our simul-posting!

The idea of hearing being connected to skin is super interesting as well!

Re digital pianos, the think I liked least about them (even the super nice, and super expensive, hybrid ones like the Yamaha Avant Grand) are just too.... perfect. Too sterile. Not organic enough.

Nothing beats an acoustic piano.

Although I'm preaching to the choir here with a comment like that! :grin:

I was perusing FB marketplace last night. There's a guy giving away (FREE) two Steinway Model D concert grands - well cared for. The owner is going into assisted living.

My recommendation would be to contact Rich G. He'll give you good guidance and treat you right.

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There's a guy giving away (FREE) two Steinway Model D concert grands - well cared for. The owner is going into assisted living.

Couldn't that be one of those scams? Giving away free pianos, the receiver just has to pay delivery up front, is a known piano scam, unfortunately.

Sounds like both MA and SK have very different tastes and priorities than I do, to each her own.

I have contemplated selling my Grotrian 6'3" grand and getting instead a Bechstein or Grotrian upright (the largest model). I don't play as much as I used to, and a grand piano takes up a lot of room and makes it harder to find a suitable house. If you haven't played one of these, don't assume you know what it would be like from playing other uprights.

But then, I could never be happy with a Japanese piano because of the tonal properties those pianos have. Just not my cup of tea. There have been some exceptions--the Shiguru Kawai and Bernard's Yamaha grand, which is unlike any other Yamaha I have played--but a Yamaha upright, never. So, speaking in generalities only, if someone offered me a free Yamaha concert grand or a German upright I have to pay for--I would take the German upright.

I noticed when touring piano factories in Europe, that nearly every German piano I played has "my" sound. It's a certain sensibility. And it is due not just to the scale design and materials, but also how the piano is prepared, tuned, and voiced. The Germans have a different sound they are seeking in their instruments.

I have also played many Fandrich uprights, and the action does feel like a grand piano, but the voicing/tone is not really my sound, either. Still, might be worth investigating.

The nice thing about preferring the Yamaha sound is that they are so consistent, from piano to piano, you won't have any trouble finding the right one.

The top-of-the-line Yamahas, from my limited experience — like the CFX? — are pretty darn nice. I hear they involve a lot of hand labor and that they have borrowed attributes of Boesendorfer, which they own.

Off topic, but nobody makes automobiles like the Germans, not since the beginning in the late 19th century when engy Benz and Horch whose defunct company is represented by the first ring of the Audi logo were direct competition. By the way, Audi is a Bavarian company, a fact obscured by BMW's name.

Carry on.

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Originally posted by Mary Anna:

This is related to something I've talked about at length with Quirt, which is why I don't want a high-quality digital piano. As with uprights, I've played digital pianos and I like them fine, but some of the sound (or perhaps it's better described as the experience of the sound) of an acoustic piano comes to the player through conduction. It's a visceral experience, literally, that can be felt in the bones.

I agree with you here. My digital piano sounded fine, but it couldn’t compare with the way the sound of my Weinbach grand went *through* me. It’s not just for the ears.

quote:

Originally posted by Mary Anna:

This is related to something I've talked about at length with Quirt, which is why I don't want a high-quality digital piano. As with uprights, I've played digital pianos and I like them fine, but some of the sound (or perhaps it's better described as the experience of the sound) of an acoustic piano comes to the player through conduction. It's a visceral experience, literally, that can be felt in the bones.

Not only that, there are some pianos (by no means all) where you can feel the vibrations through the fingers.