I always resisted getting a dampp chaser, despite lots of techs insisting they are essential. I am paranoid about it malfunctioning and drying out the piano until the soundboard cracks. Where I live, it is a lot easier to stabilize the humidity of the room than it is in the East, where the swings are huge.

One thing I do know, SK, you don't ever want your room humidity to go below 30 percent. We do have a few days here every year--often in summer--when if I didn't have three humidifiers going the humidity would drop into the 20s or lower.

Your room sounds pretty much impossible to manage, with that layout. When we were looking at houses, the first thing I took note of is how well can I isolate the piano and control the climate of the room it is in.

I think because of where you live, and because of your LR layout, you probably need one. But before you spend that much money, try adding two more humidifiers to the room. I have one airwasher, which is the main humidifier, and two el cheapo drugstore steam humidifiers. The steam humidifiers run out of water a lot faster than the airwasher, but they are cheap and really pour out the steam fast in an emergency. You can pick one up at CVS for like $25, IIRR.

If you can keep the room's humidity between 30% and 40% in the winter, you don't need a dampp chaser. Though possibly you'll want to get one anyway.

The fact is, the dampp chaser only maintains the soundboard and the action of the piano. The case and the legs are on their own. So you really must maintain the whole room within a 10 percent range anyway. 35 to 45 would be ideal. But 30 to 40 is perfectly acceptable. It's more like belt and suspenders than a one stop solution.

quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
Thanks for all the info everyone!! This is super helpful.

Ron, does that bottom cover make it hard to add water? Can you just move the cover, add water, and reattach? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding...

The units are filled via a "watering can" through a flexible fill tube clipped to the underside of the rim. The bottom cover doesn't interfere with pulling the tube from the clips and filling the unit.

The newer systems use a "smart heater bar", perhaps in response to the fears of over-drying a piano. If the unit runs completely dry, the smaller heater bar that is used to add humidity is turned off.

quote:

you don't ever want your room humidity to go below 30 percent.

Too late. When I got up this morning, it was 21% in the piano space.

It's up around 30% now. I also took one of the drying racks and laid it on its side and slid it under the piano, so I put a damp towel there, directly under the sound board.

quote:

before you spend that much money, try adding two more humidifiers to the room. I have one airwasher, which is the main humidifier, and two el cheapo drugstore steam humidifiers. The steam humidifiers run out of water a lot faster than the airwasher, but they are cheap and really pour out the steam fast in an emergency. You can pick one up at CVS for like $25, IIRR.

This is kind of a catch 22... well unless I do buy one of those $25 ones... I was thinking if I get another humidifier, I would get an Aircare or else another Venta. Well, those are either $125 or else $250-350. But if I'm going to spend that kind of money and then end up getting a DC anyway... you see what I'm getting at.

I have never used a cheap humidifier, I have read that they can cause health problems and leave a lot of white dust.

quote:

If you can keep the room's humidity between 30% and 40% in the winter, you don't need a dampp chaser.

It seems clear that I can't keep it above 30%, not in this kind of weather at least.

quote:

The fact is, the dampp chaser only maintains the soundboard and the action of the piano. The case and the legs are on their own. So you really must maintain the whole room within a 10 percent range anyway. 35 to 45 would be ideal. But 30 to 40 is perfectly acceptable.

This was one of my questions... if I have a DC and a humidifier running, but the RH in the room is sitting at around 25% for a week, is that bad for the rest of the piano?

quote:

The units are filled via a "watering can" through a flexible fill tube clipped to the underside of the rim. The bottom cover doesn't interfere with pulling the tube from the clips and filling the unit.

The newer systems use a "smart heater bar", perhaps in response to the fears of over-drying a piano. If the unit runs completely dry, the smaller heater bar that is used to add humidity is turned off.

Thanks for those details, Ron. If I do add the DC, I'll get that cover then.

I would not recommend the use of steam or misting humidifiers. They can and will leave a residue all over everything.

Evaporative is the safest type to use.

Here it gets pretty dry in winter and pretty humid in summer. When my piano arrived 22 years ago I opted for the D-C. I personally find the maintenance of humidifiers exhausting, and they have trouble getting the room humid enough.

My piano is a nine footer, and my tech suggested adding a second reservoir because there would be times I’m out of town, on tour or whatever. He replaces the pads once a year. The D-C seems to be doing the job…no soundboard cracks, pretty stable tuning. No under- or over-covers.


Just FYI, the system including installation cost around $750 22 years ago.

Thanks RP!

quote:

the system including installation cost around $750 22 years ago.

So maybe it hasn't changed all that much and my "recollection" of the price was just wishful thinking!

quote:

Originally posted by markj:
I would not recommend the use of steam or misting humidifiers. They can and will leave a residue all over everything.

Evaporative is the safest type to use.

markj, I think you are confusing the steam humidifiers with another kind of humidifier (I can't rememnber the name of the type right now) that does leave a horrible residue all over everything. The steam ones are no different from boiling a pan of water on the stove--it is clean steam. The minerals stay in the unit and don't get into the air.

I want to say the ones that propel minerals into the air are ionizing ones. But the hot steam ones are clean. i've been using them for many decades and there is no residue, except what is left behind inside the humidifier.

I dislike the cold evaporative ones because they can propel a lot of bacteria into the air. with the steam ones, if there is any bacteria the steam kills it.

the rest of the piano is furniture. dry air will destroy any piece of wood furniture. where it is dry all the time, fine furniture can easily turn into matchsticks over time.

If I were in your situation I would run a few drugstore hot steam humidifiers on the driest days. it should only be necessary when you see the humidity dropping precipitously.

you can't keep your humidity above 30 percent with just the one humidifier. having had one bad incident isn't a death knell for the piano, but I would do all I could to prevent it from happening again.

considering where you live, and that you don't have a way to control the room climate because it is an open space, if money were no object it would make sense to get a dampp chaser. I think you can manage well enough for now with more humidifiers, but you won't know for sure until you try it.

I'll try to find the type of humidifier I am talking about online and post a link to it.

here's an el cheapo warm steam vaporizer very much like the one I use in my living room to boost the humidity when the airwasher isn't enough:

https://www.amazon.com/Vicks-V...Cgarden%2C375&sr=1-4


If you are willing to spend just a little more, you can get one with a bigger reservoir that will run longer without needing to be refilled. Here's one like the one we run in our bedroom at night:


https://www.amazon.com/Vicks-H...en%2C304&sr=1-3&th=1

I think ours is a Honewell or maybe a CVS model. It puts out a lot of steam for a long time.

oh and the ones that leave dust everywhere are the ultrasonics. I have never used those because I don't want mineral deposits all over everything.

I live in SE PA, where it gets cold. We mainly heat with a combination of a woodstove (very drying!) and a hot air furnace with a whole house dehumidifer.

I will say that the issue I have with the whole house dehumidifier (and I suspect this would be an issue with any sort of room humidifier as well!) is that when it gets to a certain temp outside (not even crazy cold - I'm talking low to mid 20s) we get a lot of condensation on the windows and windowsills (and our windows are andersen nice quality windows circa 1998 so they should be triple pane and well insulated). We have to turn down the humidity level in the house in order to not have the condensation (which eventually starts to grow mold/mildew). In a cold climate, a house can only tolerate so much humidity before it starts to condense in places you don't want it. Unless your house is very VERY well insulated and sealed, moisture can get into the walls through any little crack or opening (like your electrical outlets) and condense in the wall cavities where it can lead to mold. (I learned more than I ever wanted to know about this stuff as part of the stucco hell we went through, so I'm happy to explain more if you want but here's a link to give you an idea https://www.energyvanguard.com...ity-in-cold-weather/)

I can tell that my household humitity fluctuates a lot - we have wide plank hardwood floors and there are noticable gaps that open up from wood shinkage in the winter and close up in the summer. So the piano would definitely have a rough go of it if not for our dampp chaser.

I can't tell you anything about the system itself - it was already on the piano when I bought it in 2004 (installed by the previous owner who was an RPT.) I fill it every 2-3 weeks with distilled water mixed with a capful of the dampp chaser additive -- I used to use our faucet water but we have well water and it was building up minerals. I also have the undercover which came with the piano and a wool string cover which I added, and I keep the piano closed most of the time (mainly to keep the cats out but also because it is pretty loud for the room its in so out of consideration for the rest of my family, I don't often open it up and play it at full volume. Actually, sound dampening was the primary reason I wanted the string cover but I am pleasantly surprised with how much it helps with humidity control.)

My piano tech always compliments how well the piano stays in tune - in fact, he was here a month ago for the 6 month tuning and left without tuning it because it didn't need it yet - he's coming back this week so we'll see if it's out of tune now that the heat and woodstove have been running longer. But for what it's worth, he always tells me that I have the most stable piano out of everyone he tunes because I have all 3 - the dampp chaser, the undercover, and the string cover. If I were in your situation, I'd invest in the dampp chaser and the undercover (you can add the string cover later if you need it but it will affect the sound a bit and they are $$$$ as well). That would be the most low maintenance setup because you don't have to mess with big room humidifiers and you are focusing your humidification efforts on the small area that is important, not bombing your whole house with extra humidity that could lead to problems. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

good points about the humidity, lisa. at my old house i did end up growing mold in the attic (I found out when the buyer had the house inspected). luckily it was/is a seller's market...

we are so very dry on this side of the divide, unless there is standing water somewhere, I don't think it's possible to grow mold like that in our current house. Our windows are vinyl (put in by previous owner) so the condensation doesn't hurt them.

But SK is east of the Mississippi, so a whole other ecosystem in this department.

I think you should do whatever Ron advises. He's in the same geographic area and has the expertise.

piqué, Lisa, thanks so much for all those comments! This is all very, very helpful!

I think I'm going to get one of those cheapo ones that pique recommended, for emergency uses, but also get the (super expensive!) dampp chaser.

Lisa's comments about the whole house humidifier are important, I would not want to deal with mold all over the house!!

I think the dampp chaser, plus whole-room treatment to the extent possible, is probably best in terms of the big picture, all the moving parts...