BTW thanks everyone for being my “no people.”

Have you heard of this idea? It’s one of those “productivity hacks” esp. in academia, where you get a colleague to check in with when there’s a work opportunity or demand on your time. The No Person is the person who talks you out of agreeing to do something that won’t benefit you in the long run. (For example, say no to an invitation to co-edit a book if you’re also working on a solo-authored book, bc the solo authored book will be more beneficial in your career and doing the edited volume will slow down your solo book).

So far WTF “No People” have talked me out of re-doing the basement flooring and out of buying a new hvac.

Thank, y’all!

Replaced the heat pump on my house in Missouri a couple of years ago. It was installed in the 80s.

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Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
BTW thanks everyone for being my “no people.”

Have you heard of this idea? It’s one of those “productivity hacks” esp. in academia, where you get a colleague to check in with when there’s a work opportunity or demand on your time. The No Person is the person who talks you out of agreeing to do something that won’t benefit you in the long run. (For example, say no to an invitation to co-edit a book if you’re also working on a solo-authored book, bc the solo authored book will be more beneficial in your career and doing the edited volume will slow down your solo book).

So far WTF “No People” have talked me out of re-doing the basement flooring and out of buying a new hvac.

Thank, y’all!

Count me in as silent partner in the No Group! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it… I think your HVAC system is most likely fine. Have the maintenance person give you an assessment. Ours was fine until it looked like it wasn’t going to be. And that company didn’t win the job of installing a new system!

I thought this Trane web page did a good job of summarizing the pluses and minuses of heat pumps versus furnaces: Heat Pump vs. Furnace: Which Heating System Is Right For You?

I think postponing replacement is the right idea for you at the moment. You have a working system, Trane is one of the most reliable brands in surveys I've seen, and you're on the cusp of the heating/cooling season so any malfunction would only be uncomfortable, not catastrophic.

If you still intend to talk to HVAC people, you should have a better idea of what they may recommend and what it might cost. They are liable to offer multiple altenatives, varying in efficiency and possibly configuration. Evaluating them on a ROI basis can be extremely complicated because the costs depend on so many factors including changing weather patterns, changes to the house itself that increase or decrease loads, escalation of fuel prices (both gas and electricity}, changes in time of day that someone is in the house, etc., etc.

Something that hasn't been mentioned here is geothermal heat pumps. These exchange heat with the earth via buried piping or wells rather than with the outside air, making them much more efficient than the common heat pumps that exchange with the outside air because the earth doesn't vary much in temperature year-round. The downside is substantially greater installation costs for the wells or buried pipe. In specific instances, they can be an excellent choice. I have a sister and a nephew who both have geothermal systems. They both live in rural areas where natural gas is not available as a fuel and the alternative fuels like oil or propane are much more expensive. My sister has a substantial solar power array on her farm so with net metering, the heat pump runs on essentially free energy.

I personally have a gas furnace and conventional whole-house air conditioning. They are American Standard units, installed about 8 years ago to replace a very old (over 32 years old, came with the house when we bought it) GE system. The new system is noticeably more efficient than the older one was. Comparing utility costs month over month is not really easy becuase of changing rates and changing weather, but the difference is clear even without attempting to precisely quantify it. It has been largely trouble-free, but a control board in the furnace failed after about 4 years and was replaced under warranty.

Big Al

I am glad you are waiting. But on the heat pump note:

I don't know if you are considering completely using a heat pump instead of the gas furnace or if you were thinking of having both.

When we bought our house, it was set up with an oil furnace (we don't have access to gas) in the basement and an a/c compressor unit outisde. The furnace provided heat and the A/C provided A/C and it all went through the same ductwork. Everything died at once at about 10 years old because the builder put in cheap crap, so we had to replace it all. We put in another oil furnace but when picking the outside A/C compressor, we had the option of one that just did A/C or one that could also be a heat pump and do heat. The heat pump option was only about $500 more at the time, so we chose that and I'm SO glad we did.

For starters, having the heat pump qualified us for a "Residential Heating" rate with our electric company, meaning we get much better pricing on electricity than we did before. And this rate applies year round, not just in heating season. Of course YMMV here depending on your power company.

But also, our thermostat is programmed so that the heat pump provides the heat when it is 40 degrees or warmer outside - when it dips below, it automatically switches over to the oil furnace (that was our choice - the heat pump is actually good down to 30 or so, but when it's that cold, we like the feel of the oil heat more. The heat pump air doesn't feel toasty coming out of the vents like the furnace air does, though it warms the house to temperature just fine.)

The last couple winters, there have been a lot of days that are in the 40s and all through March and April, we've been mostly in the 40s-60s. During this time, the heat pump is cheap -- and I mean SUPER CHEAP -- to run. The heat pump is keeping our house very comfortable and I haven't really noticed any bump in our electric bill at all. So on top of the cheaper electric rate, we get practically free heat during the shoulder seasons of spring and fall and even some of the warmer days during the winter. On the colder days, the oil furnace takes over or we burn the woodstove (also cheap heat!)

If you have the same setup (furnace in the basement, A/C compressor outside), I recommend looking into what it would cost to get a compressor unit that also has a basic heat pump in it. Or maybe you wouldn't even need the furnace and could just go completely with the heat pump now - I know heat pumps these days are supposed to be more efficient and work to colder temps (ours were installed in 2008 and they were limited to working well down to about 30 degrees back then). But I like having options so I do appreciate that we also have the furnace. And like I said, the heat pump during the spring and fall is so cost effective that I suspect we have recouped that $500 extra cost many many times over by now even without considering the overall electric rate savings from having the "heating" rate.

Just something to think over for when you DO have to replace your HVAC. Good luck!

Big Al, I was reading a bit about geothermal heat pumps and I’m pretty sure the install would be too expensive.

Lisa, thanks for this info! At least one of the installers I talked to mentioned the dual set up, but I had the impression it would be super expensive. What you described sounds great actually. I’ll keep it on my radar.

We have a Trane heat pump that works great, but we don't have the extreme temps, especially cold weather, that you get.

In Arizona we had two Carrier dual speed fancy ones, and worth every penny in the summer.

Is the dual speed portion only related to the cooling part of the system, or also the heating part?

One other reason why I would wait is to see how well your current HVAC setup works if your house is 2 stories. Our current house was built with 2 separate furnaces and 2 separate A/C/heat pump compressors - one set for upstairs and one for down - it's called a dual zone setup. It's expensive to install and a pain because every annual service price is multiplied by 2. But it is much more comfortable. My sister's 2 story colonial in Virginia has only 1 zone and gets very very hot upstairs - the A/C can't keep up. The HVAC guy did offer us the choice of going to just one bigger furnace and compressor and balancing the zoning through fans in the ductwork but said it was less reliable and generally less comfortable than just having the 2 separate systems so we sucked it up and replaced both sets of stuff since we were already used to having 2 sets of everything. (One other bonus - if one furnace or A/C unit breaks, you still have the other one providing some climate control for the whole the house which might be comforting to you if you plan to be away for extended periods.) If you live in the house for a bit, you'll be able to see if your heat and A/C are doing a good job on both levels of the house and if not, it can be another discussion point when you get around to replacing your system.

Good luck!

Lisa, our rental house is a two-story and the second floor is definitely hot in the summer. The owners installed the booster things on the registers, but they are not great (and one is broken) and to get them to work, they end up being quite loud. I think it's this one or something like it:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d...4c-afef-6946612d0583

I'm guessing this isn't what your HVAC guy was describing, since it's at the register rather than in the ductwork. If it was quieter on the higher settings, it would probably be ok.

Anyway our new house is a one-story over a walk out basement, so hopefully it will be ok. But yes, I think we really need to live in the house through the hottest part of the summer to see where any trouble spots are.

Our two story house has the original 1960s forced air setup, so hardly the picture of efficiency.

The 2nd floor bedrooms are warmer than the first floor during the summer when the A/C is running. To compensate for that without doing booster fans or installing multiple zones, we just adjust the registers in various rooms seasonally. So we close down almost all of the registers on the first floor at the beginning of summer, which forces more of the cool air to the second floor. The thermostat is on the first floor. Gravity does its thing, and the cool air comes down the stairs and cools the first floor. We don't use one bedroom, and just close that register off altogether.

Come cool weather in fall, we open up the vents on the first floor a bit and close the ones on the second floor down a bit to balance out the air flow. If we close the second floor registers completely in winter, it gets too cold, at least for us. We've kind of figured out a comfortable balance.

You can also have a smart thermostat with multiple sensors in rooms where you spend the most time. Of course they can be programmed and/or will automatically recognize where you're spending the most time and keep the temps comfy based on your lifestyle patterns. We thought about doing that, but our open/close the registers hack works well enough.

We also run the furnace fan all the time rather than leaving it set to Auto (which turns the fan on when either the furnace or the A/C is running and off when they aren't). Having the blower fan run constantly seems to keep the temp in the house more even overall.

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To compensate for that without doing booster fans or installing multiple zones, we just adjust the registers in various rooms seasonally. So we close down almost all of the registers on the first floor at the beginning of summer, which forces more of the cool air to the second floor. The thermostat is on the first floor. Gravity does its thing, and the cool air comes down the stairs and cools the first floor. We don't use one bedroom, and just close that register off altogether.

Ooh, I bet that would make a big difference in the rental house. We'll probably be moved before it matters, but I will tell the people who take over our lease about that.

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You can also have a smart thermostat with multiple sensors in rooms where you spend the most time. Of course they can be programmed and/or will automatically recognize where you're spending the most time and keep the temps comfy based on your lifestyle patterns.

Thanks for mentioning this. We've never had one so I don't know what they do, and I've been thinking about why we would want a smart thermostat, beyond controlling the settings while traveling or something. This scenario I hadn't thought of.

Lots of choices in thermostat technology. Wireless remote sensors to whole house smart technology...it's another rabbit hole to go down into.

But best to first figure out what the characteristics and possible problems are by living there for an entire year. Then you can find the right setup without over- or under-engineering the solution.

Wirecutter talks smart thermostats. They like the Ecobee.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecu...the-best-thermostat/

Our electric utility has done rebates if you install a smart thermostat.

And Costco has the ecobee plus two sensors for $240.

Because our NY house is three stories, separate zoning was critical to me. Having an a/c system that can turned on or off, room by room, seems like it will be a huge cost saving. And the house didn’t have a/c before, so we did not need to factor in the potential savings from living with an existing system until it died.

For heating, it had a boiler and radiators. A fairly efficient option, but we wanted better control. Heat pumps on mini-splits should give us that.

We’ll never be able to figure out the payback because the house didn’t have any insulation in the walls. As part of the renovation, we added blown-in insulation in the walls and I prodded the contractor to upgrade the insulation between the third floor ceiling and the roof.