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Mueller's (one and only) statement
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Has Achieved Nirvana
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posted
Not terribly long. Worth watching.

https://www.politico.com/video...on-full-video-068191


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When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

 
Posts: 38217 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
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quote:
"If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so."


Like my friend said, Congress has to sh*t or get off the pot. Mueller clearly thinks the president committed a crime.


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Posts: 10678 | Location: North Groton, NH | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In my fantasy Trump isn’t just impeached, rather his whole presidency gets annulled. Yeah, we’d first have to change the constitution to create that as an option.


But outside the realm of fantasy I'm against impeachment. In some sense, Trump is a symptom as well as a problem, and the real problem - 62MM Trump voters - doesn’t go away with impeachment.

I’m with Mayor Pete on this - let’s focus on beating him the old fashioned way.


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Posts: 33811 | Location: On the Hudson | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I feel the same conflict that jon does. As a practical matter, with a Republican Senate, I-1 will never be impeached. But then there's I-1's whole clusterfvck presidency.

As I listened to Mueller, this part stunned me (along with the sentence that Bernard quoted):

quote:
The introduction to the Volume II of our report explains that decision. It explains that under longstanding department policy, a president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. That is unconstitutional. Even if the charge is kept under seal and hidden from public view, that, too, is prohibited. A special counsel’s office is part of the Department of Justice, and by regulation, it was bound by that department policy. Charging the president with a crime was therefore not an option we could consider. The department’s written opinion explaining the policy makes several important points that further informed our handling of the obstruction investigation. Those points are summarized in our report, and I will describe two of them for you.

First, the opinion explicitly permits the investigation of a sitting president, because it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents available. Among other things, that evidence could be used if there were co-conspirators who could be charged now.

And second, the opinion says that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing. And beyond department policy, we were guided by principles of fairness. It would be unfair to potentially — it would be unfair to potentially accuse somebody of a crime when there can be no court resolution of the actual charge.

So that was Justice Department policy. Those were the principles under which we operated. And from them, we concluded that we would not reach a determination one way or the other about whether the president committed a crime. That is the office’s final position, and we will not comment on any other conclusions or hypotheticals about the president. We conducted an independent criminal investigation and reported the results to the attorney general, as required by department regulations.


transcript for those who don't want to watch the video: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0...ller-transcript.html


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When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

 
Posts: 38217 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
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Pete Buttigieg on Mueller's statement:

quote:
This is as close to an impeachment referral as it gets. Robert Mueller could not clear the president, nor could he charge him — so he has handed the matter to Congress, which alone can act to deliver due process and accountability.


Kamala Harris:

quote:
What Robert Mueller basically did was return an impeachment referral. Now it is up to Congress to hold this president accountable.

We need to start impeachment proceedings. It's our constitutional obligation.


Cory Booker:

quote:
Robert Mueller’s statement makes it clear: Congress has a legal and moral obligation to begin impeachment proceedings immediately.


Elizabeth Warren:

quote:
Mueller’s statement makes clear what those who have read his report know: It is an impeachment referral, and it’s up to Congress to act. They should.


Beto O'Rourke:

quote:
There must be consequences, accountability, and justice. The only way to ensure that is to begin impeachment proceedings.


Julian Castro:

quote:
Mueller made clear this morning that his investigation now lays at the feet of Congress. No one is above the law—Congress should begin an impeachment inquiry.


And there are more. Congress has a constitutional duty to act. If they do nothing, it's a slap in the face to the rule of law, and sends the message that some people are, in fact, above the rule of law.


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Posts: 10678 | Location: North Groton, NH | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
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And let's not forget Mueller himself:

quote:
And second, the opinion says that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing.


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Posts: 10678 | Location: North Groton, NH | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jon-nyc:
In my fantasy Trump isn’t just impeached, rather his whole presidency gets annulled. Yeah, we’d first have to change the constitution to create that as an option.


But outside the realm of fantasy I'm against impeachment. In some sense, Trump is a symptom as well as a problem, and the real problem - 62MM Trump voters - doesn’t go away with impeachment.

I’m with Mayor Pete on this - let’s focus on beating him the old fashioned way.


I think most reasonable people agree that Obama could have beaten Trump easily in 2016. As fun as it is to bash Trump, it gets you nowhere at best, and is counter-productive at worst. Your best bet against him is to field a good candidate.
 
Posts: 900 | Location: Bay Area of CA | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pinta & the Santa Maria
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In my fantasy, Trump never happened... but I digress.

I think the time for impeachment has passed. I know there are people who disagree, and I respect those opinions. My decision is based solely on the idea that I think if we focus on the issues that resonate with most voters--health care, immigration, tax leveling, climate change, etc., as well as focussing on Trump-created disasters like the trade war and the looming debt ceiling crisis) Trump can be beaten. If we continue to take the bait on every inane tweet and remain in reactive mode, he will likely win. I honestly don't believe this country can survive another 4 years of Trump.
 
Posts: 35428 | Location: West: North and South! | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Has Achieved Nirvana
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+1000 to what Nina said.

His M.O. is to keep people busy with crazy sh!t. Best thing to do is focus on the real problems and ignore His Flamboyance; it takes all the wind out of his sails.


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When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

 
Posts: 38217 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pinta & the Santa Maria
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I'd also like to point out that I don't know how to get the media to act like grownups during this next election and stop reporting on every Trump tweet like it's "news."

It is not news. It's propaganda, lies, obfuscation and total carp. Any Dem candidate is going to struggle to get attention from the clickbait that passes as reporting nowadays.
 
Posts: 35428 | Location: West: North and South! | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
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quote:
I think the time for impeachment has passed.


It couldn't have happened until Mueller's report was out.

quote:
If we continue to take the bait on every inane tweet and remain in reactive mode, he will likely win.


It's not an inane tweet. It's obstruction of justice, to which Mueller has strongly implicated Trump. Congress is obligated to defend and protect the Constitution, and it has nothing to do with polling or political calculation or risk factors or reading the Senate. If they do nothing they'll be guilty of dereliction of duty.


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Posts: 10678 | Location: North Groton, NH | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Minor Deity
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This professor, Allan Lichtman, who has correctly predicted every presidential winner since 1984, said on Morning Joe this morning that, according to his analysis, impeachment inquiries must begin, or Trump will win. He says, in the long run, Dems focusing on policy issues won't cut it.


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Posts: 13890 | Location: The outer burrows | Registered: 27 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My prediction? Trump will get another 4 years and there isn’t anything anyone can do about it.

Let’s hope I’m wrong.


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Life is short. Play with your dog.

 
Posts: 35084 | Location: Hooterville, OH | Registered: 23 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Beatification Candidate
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Impeachment would have to be demanded by the tRumpublicans before it would do any good. Otherwise, they will rally around their leader and energize the electorate - even the ones that don't like him.

Perhaps right after the election...


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Posts: 7602 | Location: chicagoland | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Has Achieved Nirvana
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I don't think it's likely the Dems can take the Senate in 2020.

A bit dated, but a look at the Senate picture from fivethirtyeight:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/fe...blicans-are-favored/

edit: Also remember that two-thirds of the Senate would have to vote to convict.

I don't see a path to a successful impeachment effort. We need to find a candidate who can beat I-1. I think it can happen. I-1 has many vulnerabilities; we just need to focus on the right ones.


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When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

 
Posts: 38217 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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