Ah, the new left ...

27 August 2020, 05:19 PM

Nina

Hmmm. Well I guess I should try to explain myself. First, some background. I've spent the last 4 months trying to administer CARES funding to people. We have employees who've been waiting FOUR months and still haven't received a single dime from that program, which has actually expired. One of the main reasons for the delay is antiquated systems that weren't equipped to handle the deluge that the pandemic, furloughs, and unemployment have caused. Funding is complicated, but a significant problem comes from the tax-cutting that has happened under (predominantly) GOP leadership. So I've been getting an earful from people who are really, significantly, hurting--worried about losing their home, unable to pay rent, unable to figure out a way to go back to work because there is no child care and the schools are closed. These are real issues that I am dealing with every day. Trump's latest exec order (the infamous $300 week) is only going to be available to people who are already getting more than $100/week in unemployment insurance--which means that these are people who are already earning around $42K a year. Not a lot, granted, but what about the truly underpaid employees?
They will get nothing.

Toss in what I see and hear about every night, in terms of the protests downtown, and how they're being turned into a showcase for Trump (and being escalated by his right-wing supporters in order to provide that showcase).

Now we have ANOTHER unarmed black man shot in the back multiple times, while a very highly armed white teenager who actually shot and killed people was allowed to saunter past multiple police and go home and sleep in his bed that night.

This. Is. Wrong. I don't care if the people protesting it are not doing it the right way. I don't find it amusing, I don't feel the need to offer up some sort of middle of the road, bipartisan view. This. Is. Wrong.

It's not a game, it's not politics as theater. It's affecting real people every day. So yeah, I get a bit tired of being told that people protesting our current administration aren't doing it the right way.

I feel like there are lots of people who are more upset about things like protests than are upset by people being killed, or thrown out of their houses.

I'm not saying that's what anyone here believes. I'm trying to explain why I just sort of snapped, and I probably haven't explained things well. But until these systemic issues are dealt with, I don't really care if people aren't protesting politely.

So, back to work (literally and figuratively).

27 August 2020, 05:37 PM

ShiroKuro

quote:
I feel like there are lots of people who are more upset about things like protests than are upset by people being killed, or thrown out of their houses.

27 August 2020, 06:13 PM

CHAS

quote:
Originally posted by Nina:
Hmmm. Well I guess I should try to explain myself. First, some background. I've spent the last 4 months trying to administer CARES funding to people. We have employees who've been waiting FOUR months and still haven't received a single dime from that program, which has actually expired. One of the main reasons for the delay is antiquated systems that weren't equipped to handle the deluge that the pandemic, furloughs, and unemployment have caused. Funding is complicated, but a significant problem comes from the tax-cutting that has happened under (predominantly) GOP leadership. So I've been getting an earful from people who are really, significantly, hurting--worried about losing their home, unable to pay rent, unable to figure out a way to go back to work because there is no child care and the schools are closed. These are real issues that I am dealing with every day. Trump's latest exec order (the infamous $300 week) is only going to be available to people who are already getting more than $100/week in unemployment insurance--which means that these are people who are already earning around $42K a year. Not a lot, granted, but what about the truly underpaid employees?
They will get nothing.

Toss in what I see and hear about every night, in terms of the protests downtown, and how they're being turned into a showcase for Trump (and being escalated by his right-wing supporters in order to provide that showcase).

Now we have ANOTHER unarmed black man shot in the back multiple times, while a very highly armed white teenager who actually shot and killed people was allowed to saunter past multiple police and go home and sleep in his bed that night.

This. Is. Wrong. I don't care if the people protesting it are not doing it the right way. I don't find it amusing, I don't feel the need to offer up some sort of middle of the road, bipartisan view. This. Is. Wrong.

It's not a game, it's not politics as theater. It's affecting real people every day. So yeah, I get a bit tired of being told that people protesting our current administration aren't doing it the right way.

I feel like there are lots of people who are more upset about things like protests than are upset by people being killed, or thrown out of their houses.

I'm not saying that's what anyone here believes. I'm trying to explain why I just sort of snapped, and I probably haven't explained things well. But until these systemic issues are dealt with, I don't really care if people aren't protesting politely.

So, back to work (literally and figuratively).

28 August 2020, 03:29 AM

Daniel

quote:
Originally posted by Nina:
There's certainly enough idiocy on all sides. How about we agree that it's there. I honestly don't understand the need to post every left-wing display of idiocy, while ignoring the right-wing false flag operations and other bullying.

Seriously, we get it. Do you think these scenes are representative of BLM supporters as a whole, or just the ones that are idiots and bullies? These posts are also creating free content for the Trump campaign.

28 August 2020, 03:41 AM

Daniel

quote:
Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
quote:
I feel like there are lots of people who are more upset about things like protests than are upset by people being killed, or thrown out of their houses.

+1

+2

My theory, ugly though it may be, is that many people don't care about the latter, because it doesn't affect their daily lives, whereas at the same time, feel aggrieved and threatened by the former, because their perception of the true nature of these events is lacking.

28 August 2020, 05:23 AM

Daniel

quote:
Originally posted by Nina:
Hmmm. Well I guess I should try to explain myself. First, some background. I've spent the last 4 months trying to administer CARES funding to people. We have employees who've been waiting FOUR months and still haven't received a single dime from that program, which has actually expired. One of the main reasons for the delay is antiquated systems that weren't equipped to handle the deluge that the pandemic, furloughs, and unemployment have caused. Funding is complicated, but a significant problem comes from the tax-cutting that has happened under (predominantly) GOP leadership. So I've been getting an earful from people who are really, significantly, hurting--worried about losing their home, unable to pay rent, unable to figure out a way to go back to work because there is no child care and the schools are closed. These are real issues that I am dealing with every day. Trump's latest exec order (the infamous $300 week) is only going to be available to people who are already getting more than $100/week in unemployment insurance--which means that these are people who are already earning around $42K a year. Not a lot, granted, but what about the truly underpaid employees?
They will get nothing.

Toss in what I see and hear about every night, in terms of the protests downtown, and how they're being turned into a showcase for Trump (and being escalated by his right-wing supporters in order to provide that showcase).

Now we have ANOTHER unarmed black man shot in the back multiple times, while a very highly armed white teenager who actually shot and killed people was allowed to saunter past multiple police and go home and sleep in his bed that night.

This. Is. Wrong. I don't care if the people protesting it are not doing it the right way. I don't find it amusing, I don't feel the need to offer up some sort of middle of the road, bipartisan view. This. Is. Wrong.

It's not a game, it's not politics as theater. It's affecting real people every day. So yeah, I get a bit tired of being told that people protesting our current administration aren't doing it the right way.

I feel like there are lots of people who are more upset about things like protests than are upset by people being killed, or thrown out of their houses.

I'm not saying that's what anyone here believes. I'm trying to explain why I just sort of snapped, and I probably haven't explained things well. But until these systemic issues are dealt with, I don't really care if people aren't protesting politely.

So, back to work (literally and figuratively).

Awesome post. Thank you.

28 August 2020, 03:48 PM

jon-nyc

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda:
Once more I've decided to ask a poster for clarification (and entirely because I wanted to benefit from their insights and got lost somewhere.

OK so far, jon, but I don't know what "narrative" you're referring to. The over-riding theme here (WTF's liberal slant) or something else?

After all, the media are full of stories about mixed protestors, Right-ish and Left-ish. (Reminds me of a professor who spoke of the difference in warfare when armies stopped wearing uniforms!)

I may be the thickest person here, but I'm having increasing trouble understanding messages here. I've just decided to "reality check" here and there. I get an embarrassing amount of my opinions from WTF. NOT wholesale! But I value your thoughts want to make I sure I'm grasping your point.

By 'narrative' I mean the moral framework through which media companies and consumers filter and interpret the news, usually as facile as deciding who the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys' are. So when I speak of "an appeal to stick to the narrative", I mean a desire to limit or avoid discussion of events which introduce nuance or moral ambiguity into a situation which one wishes to see as essentially black and white. (probably not the best metaphor - lol)

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda:
You are notable for actively participating in both fora (much more there than here, if anything)-.
Likewise, for speaking up there (in this instance) overall antiTrump. However, your very presence there suggests (to say the least) your wish to avoid partisanism.

I can understand that. We all want to consider ourselves reasonable people who can't be characterized by a single dismissive label.(One son in particular seems to have staked out a claim to omniscient, clear-seeing Centrism! )

With all the (well-founded) concern expressed eveywhere about "division" and polarization, we want to avoid being part of it. (I AM concerned about falling prey to dreaded "echo chamber" effect.)

So when comments are raised which seem to want to help us avoid extremes, I especially want to benefit. (And then - hopefully - form my own opinion.)

Politically, at least, I post on broadly the same two themes in both forums. One is something like 'Trumpism is a danger to the republic and must be stopped' and the other is something like 'The post-liberal left is a danger to the republic and must be stopped'. In each forum everyone seems to like one or the other topic, only a tiny handful seem genuinely sympathetic to both.

28 August 2020, 04:23 PM

jon-nyc

quote:
Originally posted by Nina:
I don't care if the people protesting it are not doing it the right way. I don't find it amusing, I don't feel the need to offer up some sort of middle of the road, bipartisan view. This. Is. Wrong.

It's not a game, it's not politics as theater. It's affecting real people every day. So yeah, I get a bit tired of being told that people protesting our current administration aren't doing it the right way.

I feel like there are lots of people who are more upset about things like protests than are upset by people being killed, or thrown out of their houses.

I'm not saying that's what anyone here believes. I'm trying to explain why I just sort of snapped, and I probably haven't explained things well. But until these systemic issues are dealt with, I don't really care if people aren't protesting politely.

Don Lemon called this the Democratic 'blind spot' the other day.

quote:
“It’s showing up in the polling. It’s showing up in focus groups. It is the only thing right now that is sticking,” Lemon said ahead of "CNN Tonight" on Tuesday. “The riots and the protests have become indistinguishable."

“I think this is a blind spot for Democrats. I think Democrats are ignoring this problem or hoping that it will go away, and it’s not going to go away,” he added before arguing the violence needs to be addressed by Biden before the election.

“The problem is not going to be fixed by [Election Day],” said Lemon. “But what they can do, and I think maybe Joe Biden may be afraid to do it … he’s got to address it. He’s got to come out and talk about it.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/m...ws-up-in-the-polling

If the convention was any guide, the Trump campaign thinks the rioting is a potentially winning issue for them.

The Biden campaign's polling may agree, if the noises they've made in the last few days are any indication.

I just hope it's not too late.

28 August 2020, 05:28 PM

Nina

I agree, the violent protests aren't helping. That's one of the reasons why I keep harping on the whole "false flag" narrative--because from what I've seen and heard reported here, a significant amount of violence is coming from far right so-called patriots or anarchists (NOT antifa). They are the ones who are instigating much of the violence here, who are looting and destroying things. It is playing right into Trump's hand. Most of the local BLM type organized protest groups have denounced the violence and begged people to stop. You can see self-policing happening, with people trying to de-escalate the situation. But if your goal is to incite violence, and that's the primary, if not sole, reason why Proud Boys, Boogaloo, Patriot Prayer groups are here, well they will.

And doesn't it make for great TV?

28 August 2020, 06:03 PM

Piano*Dad

The likelihood that the protesters I posted to start the thread, the ones harassing diners, is a false flag operation is essentially zero.

Shushing people who point this out, or calling them uncaring, leads to sane, sensible, and otherwise sympathetic people moving away from "the movement."

Carry on.

28 August 2020, 06:12 PM

jon-nyc

Or it leads to silence out of fear of social repercussions. Who wants to be viewed as “on the wrong side of history?”

Then next thing you know we all just sit around and pretend the bad **** isn’t happening and Trump runs the table because our politicians won’t condemn it.

28 August 2020, 06:22 PM

Piano*Dad

quote:
Politically, at least, I post on broadly the same two themes in both forums. One is something like 'Trumpism is a danger to the republic and must be stopped' and the other is something like 'The post-liberal left is a danger to the republic and must be stopped'. In each forum everyone seems to like one or the other topic, only a tiny handful seem genuinely sympathetic to both.

Where's that dinosaur emoticon ... that's us.

28 August 2020, 06:33 PM

Nina

quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
The likelihood that the protesters I posted to start the thread, the ones harassing diners, is a false flag operation is essentially zero.

Agreed, which is why I clarified to include "looting and destroying things," not just getting into someone's face. I don't think that the super-aggressive protests targeted at individuals like the diner you posted are helping, either. But I'm trying to make the point that there's a big chasm between getting in someone's face and looting, destroying property, assault or shooting someone.

If you want to argue the thin edge of the razor, sure, getting in someone's face, if you touch them, is assault. Punching someone and putting them into the hospital is also assault. I won't argue that point, if you were getting ready to make it.