Based on personal experience, the charging stations on the left coast are very, very busy.

quote:

Originally posted by Nina:
Based on personal experience, the charging stations on the left coast are very, very busy.

Because they all take too long to “fill up”?

Last summer coming back from moving our daughter to NC we saw a Tesla in SE Ohio with one of those trailer hitch shelves on the back. Upon it was a gas generator and a five gallon gas can.

So I assume they are few and far between around those parts.

The West Coast has the highest number of electric cars (esp Teslas) in the United States, both in terms of total cars and in market share... at least as of 2018, the last time I can find really good data.

California 153,442 cars sold (not on the road, that would be more) = 7.84% of sales
Washington 12,650 = 4.28%
Oregon 5,976 = 3.41%
DC 761 = 3.34%
Colorado 7,051 = 2.61%
Hawaii 1,934 = 2.59%
Massachusetts 8,990 = 2.53%
Connecticut 3,415 = 2.02%
Vermont 842 = 1.92% (the only state that went down from 2017)

There were 328,118 electric cars sold in 2018 which means that California, Washington and Oregon accounted for 52% of all sales if my math is right. California is obviously swamping everything.

The other thing--it's not clear if these numbers are 100% electric cars, or those stupid hybrid-plug in combos. I say stupid because most of the electric parts of those cars have mediocre range at best, but you're paying for all the e-stuff and losing a lot of storage space in the bargain. I'm not a fan. BUT... check back because allegedly the new CRV (or maybe RAV4, I can never remember) has a hybrid/e-plug in that gets 40 miles on the battery, which makes it a reasonable option for running errands around town.

Mik, I don't know why that Tesla owner had a generator and gas, unless they retrofitted the Tesla engine to run on gas, which seems highly unlikely. My guess is that they were taking the generator to some area of NC that had unreliable electric supply. Infrastructure, baby!

I just bought a Kia Niro hybrid. It also comes in a plug-in version for a bunch more money and gets about 26 miles on electric only. That's enough for around town, but we are in a rental which complicates charging.

My tuning days often go above 100 miles, and we will probably take road trips in this car, so a hybrid suits me just fine for the extended range.

I'm happy to be averaging over 50 mpg!

My next-door neighbor had a Prius plug-in hybrid, but last year replaced it with a Tesla. I think it makes sense for him and his wife because they also have a conventionally fueled Subaru in their garage that they can use for longer trips.

The last time I bought a vehicle, I considered a hybrid but had a hard time getting any information on expected battery life and replacement battery costs. At that time, I still had a 50+ mile round trip to work, mostly freeway driving, and I had a hard time finding a justification for a hybrid. Now, after retirement, I could consider an electric for local driving and use the gas-powered vehicle my wife drives for longer trips that we make, but we're not likely to buy a new vehicle soon because we drive much less these days.

I am seeing more and more electric vehicle charging stations in my area in parking garages and parking lots, particularly at malls and supermarkets. I am also seeing more Teslas, in particular, on area roads.

I'm curious as to who and why people are purchasing electric vehicles and what the economic justification might be for them. The carbon reductions benefits are easier to see.

Big Al

I wonder what Kenny is driving these days. Has he gone electric or still a hypermiler?

I was disappointed when Honda pulled its hydrogen car program out of California.

Yes, hydrogen can explode. So can gasoline.

Then the argument typically was that hydrogen can't be produced in sufficient quantity, or some such.

The argument seemed to change continually and contain several assertions (i.e. statements without logic).

In any case, Honda's car with water vapor tail emissions is a footnote in history.

The Toyota Mirai is available in the USA now. There may be others. I'm a noob when it comes to hydrogen cell powered cars, but my understanding is that the big issues are currently with availability (of recharging stations? see, noob) and cost. But this is what you'd expect from any alternative fuel start-up.

I think it's still intriguing.

Hydrogen is an intriguing fuel if a green way of producing at an economical price can be acheived. If it is adopted for some transportation uses, I'd expect its first applications would be similar to where compressed natural gas has found use - with fleet vehicles that don't travel too far from their home base where a fueling station can be provided. Large numbers of garbage trucks and utility company vehicles in my area run on natural gas.

It is possible that such private fueling stations might also be made available to public users in some instances. That is true of at least two companies using natural gas that I know of.

Natural gas is certainly a cleaner fuel than petroleum products or coal, but it is still a producer of CO2, so it is at best a transition fuel from dirtier fuels. Burning hydrogen should only result in water as a by-product, but present methods of making free hydrogen in quantity are still dirty, so this fuel source is more potentiality than practicality at this point in time.

Big Al

It makes you think twice about buying an all-electric vehicle. The infrastructure for public battery charging stations isn’t there yet and will take awhile.

I was at an outdoor summer Farmers Market two years ago. It’s supposed to be for farmers only but it was early in the season and there wasn’t enough farmers taking up all the available stalls. So the city allowed other non-farming vendors to take their place for that week end only.

This particular Saturday, there was a Nissan dealer with an all-electric Leaf car on display. The hood was open and I noticed two electrical receptacles. I asked the sales person about it. He said one of the receptacles was for 120 V/240 V and the other was for 480 V. 120 V is for the slow charge; 240 V is for the fast charge. 480 Volts is for a very fast charge. He explained that when a Leaf at the dealership needs an electrical charge up, they use the 480 V outlet. It only takes minutes instead of hours to recharge the battery and it’ll give a Leaf enough charge for an owner to get home. I don’t know if all all-electric cars have a 480 V receptacle but this car did.

Industrial and commercial institutions can get 480 Volt electrical service from a utility. I also don’t know if a residential home owner can get 480 V service for his garage. AAA offers battery jump starts for regular 12 Volt batteries. I don’t know if AAA offers motorists 480 V fast charge ups for non-12 Volt batteries on all-electric cars.

I think the BMW i3 is a sensible approach. It is an electric car with a 600 cc gasoline engine generator. The engine does not propel the car, it charges the battery.

Gasoline engines are very inefficient. But they are most efficient at a specific speed. Run one at a continuous, optimum speed to drive a generator, and, in theory, it could give you the equivalent of 100 mpg. You could even add a bunch of intelligence and have the generator run when you anticipate needing more range than the battery yields. The generator is not (yet) allowed to run when the car is unattended, but that could increase the useful range even farther. Say you have an 80 mile commute each day and the battery alone is good for 150 miles. You drive to work on battery. While you are at work, the generator turns itself on and charges the battery enough to get you home plus a bit in reserve so you can make a side trip to the grocery store on the way. The system "learns" your habits and recharges itself to optimize the gasoline-fueled recharge. You always have the option of telling it that you plan to take the scenic route home or leave on a trip after work and have it charge up to 100%.

Ain't no rocket science here.

quote:

Originally posted by Qaanaaq-Liaaq:
Industrial and commercial institutions can get 480 Volt electrical service from a utility. I also don’t know if a residential home owner can get 480 V service for his garage.

Not likely. Maybe if it used to be an industrial building or something.

quote:

AAA offers battery jump starts for regular 12 Volt batteries. I don’t know if AAA offers motorists 480 V fast charge ups for non-12 Volt batteries on all-electric cars.

Also not likely. I wonder if AAA trucks are carrying generators to charge electric cars these days. If they do, it would probably take a while to get enough charge to get the car to a charging station.