I think its great that if people want the wall, they can help pay directly. The guy who set it up is looking for a way to ensure it is used only for the wall. Even PTAs have a way to do that with donated money,so is likely entirely possible. Its not clear if he can use the donated money to pay the lawyer's fees, but perhaps the lawyer(s) will work pro bono to support the wall, including funding the defense when environmental organizations, grazers, etc bring suit against the wall ?

Does no one see an issue with the fact that Trump campaigned on building the wall for FREE? This is a con man's bait and switch.

I am very concerned that a bunch of citizens, however well-meaning, can usurp the electoral process and essentially fund a federal program that no one voted for (even Trump supporters were told it was going to be free) and claim specific federal rights (like eminent domain). Further, it takes us down the slippery slope path of menu-driven taxes. By that, I mean that it opens the possibility that individual taxpayers can pick and choose how they want their taxes to be spent.

If you pull your view out even a little, you should be able to see that this is a really bad idea.

quote:

Originally posted by piqaboo:
I think its great that if people want the wall, they can help pay directly. The guy who set it up is looking for a way to ensure it is used only for the wall. Even PTAs have a way to do that with donated money,so is likely entirely possible. Its not clear if he can use the donated money to pay the lawyer's fees, but perhaps the lawyer(s) will work pro bono to support the wall, including funding the defense when environmental organizations, grazers, etc bring suit against the wall ?

So if any private group wants to make US policy against the wishes of millions of other Americans, that's OK if they pay for it? Really? And where that policy will force positive harm on many people (land seizures, for instance). Do I have this right? And this "policy" also has foreign repercussions. So private groups can craft the foreign policy of the US as long as they can fund it privately? Really? Over the wishes of the US Congress?

I may be ignorant, but how is this different from each school and school district?

And no, nothing about a targeted donation conveys the right to eminent domain. Congress would still have to approve using the funds, etc. If the funds are not used for the wall, then they are returned to the donor per the arrangement the guy is working toward.

You are offered the opportunity to donate to the US government activity of your choice every time you file your taxes. How is this different ?

quote:

Originally posted by well-tempered gardener:

quote:

Originally posted by Mikhailoh:

quote:

Originally posted by well-tempered gardener:
No. Where did you get that idea?

Original post was a bit snarky.

It is true I don't think much of the initiative. But I respect the supporters right to pursue it.

I respect the supporters right to pursue it, but I don't respect ignorance of basic math. The odds are ridiculously low that a grassroots group could raise a respectable fraction of a number that, though disputed, has to be in the billions.

However, the cost of building Flint a whole new water system is likely within the realm of possibility for grassroots funding. I would absolutely donate to that, if someone laid out a workable plan that included an explanation of how the money would be transferred into an account that directly funded the project.

I would prefer that the fundraising be done with as little overhead as possible, and I'm not sure GoFundMe is the best way.

quote:

You are offered the opportunity to donate to the US government activity of your choice every time you file your taxes. How is this different ?

Building a wall that hasn't been approved by Congress isn't the same as donating to the presidential election fund.

quote:

Originally posted by piqaboo:
I think its great that if people want the wall, they can help pay directly. The guy who set it up is looking for a way to ensure it is used only for the wall. Even PTAs have a way to do that with donated money,so is likely entirely possible. Its not clear if he can use the donated money to pay the lawyer's fees, but perhaps the lawyer(s) will work pro bono to support the wall, including funding the defense when environmental organizations, grazers, etc bring suit against the wall ?

I disagree strongly.

quote:

Originally posted by well-tempered gardener:
https://www.gofundme.com/ladde...-over-trump039s-wall

quote:

Originally posted by Mikhailoh:
There are a lot of people in this country who are tired of being told their ideas are stupid and backwards and that they should just listen to the more educated.

So, when a really stupid idea gets traction among the undereducated, what are those of us with functioning powers of reason to do? Nod our heads and say, "Bless your hearts!"?

Somehow, it sounds like you're touting willful ignorance as a political bargaining chip. That is not only dangerous, but it's (as above) a stupid idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikhailoh:
I know you don't realize it but you are a large part of why Trump was elected. There are a lot of people in this country who are tired of being told their ideas are stupid and backwards and that they should just listen to the more educated.

Persuasion will get you a lot further than dismissal.

I agree with this statement. IMHO, one mistake made during the 2016 Presidential campaign was dismissing a group of people as "deplorables" because some of them believed things or desired things that others did not. I do not think any of us shares a 100% identical set of beliefs and desires with anyone else. The many discussions that take place in this and other forums is clear evidence of that. Not many of us are the seed of Satan and in pursuit of evil wherever it may lead. Some of us appear stupid, ignorant, or ill-informed to others. It much behooves all of us to treat others with kindness and using persuasion rather than dismissal is one way of doing so.

I have witnessed close at hand the results of hatred this year. I wish to all good will toward men and peace on earth.

Big Al

quote:

Originally posted by piqaboo:

You are offered the opportunity to donate to the US government activity of your choice every time you file your taxes. How is this different ?

I am?? I am so not following you here. I can vote individuals in our out, and the occasional bond, but I have never been given a choice to pick which government activity I want to donate to when I file my taxes. What am I missing?

Re: "deplorables," I agree. But my main issue is the broad-brush use of the term, just as I bristle (see what I did there, broad brush...oh, never mind ) when people use terms like "libtard" and "snowflake" to describe me.

But I am the first to admit that some views on the left drive me batty, and I am not going to let the true deplorables get off just because the word makes them feel icky. Because deplorables live amongst us, and we need to fight those views. Are all Trump voters deplorables? Are all GOP voters deplorables? Of course not. Just like not all Dems are libtards. Some Dems are likely in the deplorable mode (gasp) as well.

Once you start throwing those terms around indiscriminately, all opportunity for discussion ends.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt G.:

quote:

Originally posted by Mikhailoh:
There are a lot of people in this country who are tired of being told their ideas are stupid and backwards and that they should just listen to the more educated.

So, when a really stupid idea gets traction among the undereducated, what are those of us with functioning powers of reason to do? Nod our heads and say, "Bless your hearts!"?

Somehow, it sounds like you're touting willful ignorance as a political bargaining chip. That is not only dangerous, but it's (as above) a stupid idea.

So disagreement with you equals ignorance. You just made my point.

quote:

Originally posted by Nina:
Re: "deplorables," I agree. But my main issue is the broad-brush use of the term, just as I bristle (see what I did there, broad brush...oh, never mind ) when people use terms like "libtard" and "snowflake" to describe me.

Agreed with the first paragraph, but in the second you just go right back to what you say you are against.