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Has Achieved Nirvana |
Have known that blanks can kill since childhood. Don't recall how or why I learned that. Had a .410 gauge single shot at a very young age. Got a 16 gauge years later. Guns and hunting were part of life. I was a good shot. I learned how to hit flying birds and clay pigeons by listening to what I heard people say would work. I bought a quality over/under shotgun a few years ago. Have never shot it.
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Has Achieved Nirvana |
I read the same thing, although it was a quote from a "former filmmaker" and U.S. shooting team member, so I don't know whether that qualifies someone as a film safety expert. | |||
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Has Achieved Nirvana |
I've seen interviews with three people who work in the industry as weapons handlers and they all made the same observation, that they had never seen so many mistakes made in how the prop guns were handled as happened on the set of 'Rust'.
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| (self-titled) semi-posting lurker Minor Deity  |
And I read a snippet that said it looks like Alec Baldwin could be held criminally responsible, not for pulling the trigger but because he's in a position of authority as the producer.
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
There's a saying in compliance ... tone from the top. The people at the top of the organization are responsible for establishing a culture of compliance and a respect for compliance. I feel sorry for the man, but he was in charge. If you want to be in charge, then you have to live with the responsibility. And, if this results in fewer actors wanting to be the person in charge of absolutely everything because of the potential consequences ... that's not a bad thing. | |||
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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity  |
Mmmm, maybe Baldwin was culpable. But I thought in movies that everybody and anybody who wants it can have the title "producer." If in this case "producer" meant he put up some money and helped hire people, I don't see any criminal liability. If he had any role in pushing production or encouraging lax safety, there could be a problem. | |||
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| Unrepentant Dork Gadfly  |
Producer is usually the money. Executive Producer is a title bump in lieu of not giving you more money. Producers usually do have say because they do the budget. As in “you have 6 days to film something that really needs 12 days”. And that’s where a lot of corners get cut.
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| Serial origamist Has Achieved Nirvana  |
The term "producer" sounds to me like he is the CEO of the movie. As Bush the Younger said, "the decider". So, he would be the one person ultimately responsible for everything that happens in the course of making the movie. Further, he was on the set, at least during the shooting (ooh, sorry about the very tasteless choice of words), so he cannot convincingly claim he had no idea what was going on. If I were Alec Baldwin, I would not be sleeping very well these days. I think he is in deep yogurt. (I am not a lawyer and don't even play one on TV.)
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| Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big? Minor Deity |
I'm thinking the bar is pretty high for criminal liability for an actor/producer like Baldwin. The investigation will tell all, of course, and there could be some damning emails. If I had to bet, I bet he won't be charged, although someone else might be. There have been a lot of serious accidents in movie production. How many people have been charged criminally? And how often is it the producer instead of the director? When that helicoper accident killed the actor and two kids, everyone charged was acquitted. When a person was killed by a train on a set, the director pled and served a year in jail. It can happen, but I wouldn't charge based on what we know so far. | |||
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| "I've got morons on my team." Mitt Romney Minor Deity  |
I'm still waiting for some evidence about live ammo. Was live ammo used during the filming at some points? If so, we're in a very different world of expected care and precaution (and professional management). If not, just how did a live bullet come to be in the chamber? | |||
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/26...olded-cec/index.html | |||
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Gadfly |
I don't really understand it all exactly, but I did read somewhere that blanks basically have the gunpowder and explode just like real bullets, they just don't have the corresponding projectile that flies out of the barrel that real bullets have. But if something happens to be in the gun's barrel - a small pebble, a remnant of the previous blank, whatever -- it will be pushed out from the explosive force just like it was part of an actual live round. The armorer person in charge on the Rust set was a young woman who had apparently been fired before for loading blanks into a gun while sitting on a gravel surface - she failed to look into the barrel to see if any of the tiny stones had gotten in there while she was loading the blank rounds and then just handed the gun to a child. So I agree that it is just crazy to have real live bullets on a movie set but perhaps it was more this scenario where the blank round explosion pushed something that didn't belong in the barrel out of it. | |||
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
There's also a rumor going around that, for amusement during time off, the crew was using the old-time guns for "plinking" ... essentially, goofing around by shooting at cans. If someone wasn't careful, a live round could accidentally have been left in the gun after the "plinking". I've also read that there were multiple different kinds of ammunition all around the set, and that the head armorer was young and relatively new (although her father had been an armorer ... she'd only been armorer for one other film. They hired her because they were only offering low pay for the armorer and more experienced people rejected the job for that reason. | |||
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Minor Deity |
This is really interesting, and so is the rumor that the crew had been practice-shooting with the old-fashioned guns. The possibility that it could have been a pebble or some other non-bullet seems to me as a non-gun-person somewhat less likely, since the projectile went through one person and into another one at some distance. Would a pebble do that? I don't know.
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| Has Achieved Nirvana |
From the WSJ:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/d...11635337800?mod=e2tw The article says that the time and delays involved in using real guns (safety checks, warning neighbors, clearing the sets) are more expensive than CGI. And this is also in response to Dol's point:
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well-temperedforum.groupee.net The Well-Tempered Forum Off Key This Whole Alec Baldwin Thing Shows That We're All Doomed As A Country