Maybe “Defund the police” is an expression of privilege

15 August 2020, 06:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Horace:
quote:
as hard as we may try, at some level we in the majority will never "get it."

Right this is what I'm talking about. Armed with that belief, there is no reasonable way to have an opinion that differs from the oppressed. As I worded it originally, a majority person who believes this way is 'supposed' to say whatever the oppressed people say. Because the majority person is incapable of understanding the issues sufficiently to have their own opinion.

The “majority person” is supposed to listen to voices that have been marginalized and believe them when they share their experiences.

15 August 2020, 06:58 PM

BeeLady

quote:
Originally posted by dolmansaxlil:
The “majority person” is supposed to listen to voices that have been marginalized and believe them when they share their experiences.

This...

15 August 2020, 07:05 PM

Horace

Those are nice words, and jon would approve of the charitable way of putting it. But it still boils down to ceding your opinion in all things politics to the oppressed. That is how one demonstrates that one is listening and believing.

15 August 2020, 08:10 PM

Nina

There's nothing in the verbs "to listen," or "to believe" that equates to ceding your opinion in all things politics to the oppressed. What an odd way to put it. No one is saying you can't have your opinion, or that your opinion has to match "the oppressed." But just because it's YOUR opinion, on the flip side, doesn't mean that it's the only opinion.

"I believe you, your experience is a lot different than mine, though..." v "I don't believe you, I've never had that happen to me...."

There's a difference there.

16 August 2020, 10:04 AM

jon-nyc

quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Why do you presume they would change their minds on the basis of polling information of this sort? That presumes that the "white liberal" activists have the welfare of lower-income people in high-crime (often minority) areas as their #1 priority.

FWIW I was simply suggesting a less uncharitable interpretation for Horace's conclusion.

quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
I would venture an alternative and much more cynical idea. That activists often have their own interests in focus. Not that they don't care about their supposed charges, but maintaining their own power may exert an important tug on what they say and advocate. Maintaining that power/authority might not be perfectly correlated, or even highly correlated, with the measured interests of the black community.

I can't imagine what else is behind the breezy indifference to the significant evidence that reduction in policing will have a tremendous cost in black lives. Orders of magnitude more than those lost to cops.

16 August 2020, 10:09 AM

jon-nyc

quote:
Originally posted by Nina:
I agree, "defund" the police is a stupid, stupid title for what is essentially a call for more training, a more diverse suite of responses, a recognition that part of the role of the police should be to protect and serve communities.

That's what I thought/hoped at first. And surely for some people it is. But look at the actual bills percolating in some of the city councils.

16 August 2020, 10:14 AM

jon-nyc

quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I think there are two problems.

First, officers treat blacks with tremendous disrespect. This has nothing to do with defunding. The problems range from speaking rudely, treating people as though they are used to police interactions and so aren't entitled to an explanation and don't have rights that must be respected, and blacks are inherently dangerous. Stopping these behaviors will not let criminals run free.

Second, officers will have to stop displaying the sMe values of a street gang. This loyalty no matter what attitude, a toxic culture where those who do the wrong thing run the show, where scores are settled with a beating . . . It's a problem because good officers are afraid to speak up.

Diverting police resources is a separate issue.

I agree 100.0% with this.