22 July 2019, 02:22 PM
QuirtEvansHow a Dystopian Nightmare Was Avoided
https://www.theatlantic.com/id...hxdn2fNefcInte35ZvgE22 July 2019, 02:39 PM
Piano*Dadquote:
“Suspicionless seizures”—that is, forcible detention of individuals for document checks without probable cause or “reasonable suspicion”—are pretty much not allowed. CBP can check documents at borders and ports of entry for immigration purposes; now the agency seemed to be extending its “unshackled” reach to the interior.
Well, this is what happens routinely on I-25 north of Las Cruces. My son was harassed there by officers with dogs, and ordered to provide identification.
22 July 2019, 04:03 PM
QuirtEvansquote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
quote:
“Suspicionless seizures”—that is, forcible detention of individuals for document checks without probable cause or “reasonable suspicion”—are pretty much not allowed. CBP can check documents at borders and ports of entry for immigration purposes; now the agency seemed to be extending its “unshackled” reach to the interior.
Well, this is what happens routinely on I-25 north of Las Cruces. My son was harassed there by officers with dogs, and ordered to provide identification.
As I understand the ACLU's advice, you are not required to provide identification to them. However, they are allowed to detain you in order to establish your citizenship. Which seems like contradictory advice.
22 July 2019, 04:14 PM
Piano*DadYeah, tell that to four grad students at 1:00 A.M. who are told to get out of the car, line up, and provide documents by agents holding growling German Shepherds.
22 July 2019, 04:18 PM
QuirtEvansquote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Yeah, tell that to four grad students at 1:00 A.M. who are told to get out of the car, line up, and provide documents by agents holding growling German Shepherds.
They need to know their rights, have copies of the ACLU flyer with them, and hand one to the agents.
There are (daylight) videos of people on YouTube near the Canadian border in the northeast challenging CBP when they are stopped/detained and refusing to cooperate. Probably worth watching if there's a chance they will be in that position again.
Either that, or cooperate.
22 July 2019, 05:43 PM
NinaThey are overcome with their own power. The notion of "probable cause" gets stretched and stretched. They are allowed to pull over a car anywhere (not just within 25 miles of the border, as is sometimes stated). They
will hassle you if they feel like it. They
will hassle Hispanics more than others. While you can sit there, say nothing except "am I free to go," they aren't magic words that will turn CBP into your friends. More than likely, it will antagonize them further.
The ACLU lists your rights, and what a reasonable stop should entail. But in both my personal experience and from what I've heard from others, the CBP is in total control of the stop and they can escalate pretty much whenever they want. Your only option, and the best approach, is to say as little as possible and ride it out.
22 July 2019, 06:53 PM
QuirtEvansquote:
Originally posted by Nina:
They are overcome with their own power. The notion of "probable cause" gets stretched and stretched. They are allowed to pull over a car anywhere (not just within 25 miles of the border, as is sometimes stated). They will hassle you if they feel like it. They will hassle Hispanics more than others. While you can sit there, say nothing except "am I free to go," they aren't magic words that will turn CBP into your friends. More than likely, it will antagonize them further.
The ACLU lists your rights, and what a reasonable stop should entail. But in both my personal experience and from what I've heard from others, the CBP is in total control of the stop and they can escalate pretty much whenever they want. Your only option, and the best approach, is to say as little as possible and ride it out.
Three things.
One, I think it’s 100 miles from the border.
And two, the kind of stop PD describes is much more fraught than a checkpoint. At a checkpoint, there’s usually a supervisor.
Three, the ACLU has automatic upload apps. I have the OK one on my phone. Press the app, start recording, and the world can eventually see how they treated you, as long as you have cell signal, because the video is uploaded before they can stop it.