Admittedly, it's especially interesting to me as a dual US-Israeli citizen, but I'm sure others will get hooked on this Netflix adoption of the (soon to be) three season Israeli TV spy thriller.

It's a behind the scenes drama based on an undercover Israeli spy organization made up of fluent Arabic-speaking Israelis, put together with the purpose of finding and breaking up terrorist groups - where possible, executing the ringleaders. Inevitably, many innocents are victimized at crisis points.

Their modus operandi is to successfully infiltrate Arab communities, mostly on the West Bank and as such, both in real life and in choosing actors, they are masters of the Palestinian Arabic dialect. They also impersonate Palestinian Arabs by age, class and role-playing. Such a group has existed (and I presume still does). In fact, the Israeli lead and script-writer was a former member.

It's written to highlight the human angle, from both sides' perspectives (with many parallels in family and organizational conflicts), bound to keep the audience on the edge of their seats as both high adventure and psycho-drama.

It's frankly designed mostly as entertainment, rather than to present political messages, but the latter is also there and it's powerful. Inescapably, it's a downer in many ways owing to the nature of the underlying reality. It certainly doesn't leave viewers with any insights or new hope - except perhaps in the fact of such a show itself and its high exposure. Perhaps that may help both natives and international viewers form a new sense of what IS going on for both sides.

"FAUDA" (=chaos or catastrophe in Arabic) probably presents the perspective more from the Israeli than the Palestinian POV, but it succeeds remarkably in being more sympathetic and even-handed than one would have thought possible. Though as one might expect, many Palestinians take offense at how they're portrayed, Israeli excesses and mistreatment of Palestinians are not ignored. They don't come across as angels by any means.

Perhaps the first link below written by a Palestinian movie reviewer describes those issues best. FAUDA began as a great hit on Israeli TV and is now an international hit too.

Probably no one here but me will welcome the varied options for languages, including both dubbing and original language presentations (with sub-titles) in both Hebrew and Arabic. As such, it was a golden opportunity to review my Hebrew and experience the country, in however specialized an environment. It contributed to my growing wish to return to my one-time home for another year or so, if I can pull it off.

Atlantic review by a Palestinian:

https://www.theatlantic.com/in...-palestinian/561917/

Overview of the series (I binged watched the first two seasons embarrassingly fast).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fauda

I agree--watched it last year.

I should watch this. I should care about this. I feel bad that I dont and I won’t. But..

Its become obvious that the situation in that part of the world is completely hopeless. No one has any interest in peace, only advancing their particular cause. It’s been wrapped in religion and rational thought has gone out the window.

Thanks for sharing this. I’m sure it’s very powerful for you.

But I’m out.

I'll take a rain check, Amanda; but, thank you.

Steve (and others who share his disinterest), I regret having presented FAUDA - at least, so I assume - as primarily attracting those keen on the history of this tragic conflict.

In fact, it's as engrossing as the best of the James Bond movies only with the added perk of intense character studies and brilliant acting. If it weren't good theatre, it wouldn't have been so popular - voted one of the top series in international competitions. (I see one of the languages it's subtitled into is Chinese, two versions, no less.) I doubt its many overseas fans would find themselves as addicted, if they were looking for uplift or information. (Especially considering the widespread boycott of Israeli products, including sports events and entertainers. All but medical and personally useful innovations, that is... )

It's very well done.

And personally (speaking as someone who despises shows that leave off weekly on cliff-hangers - like "Shetland"), I appreciate being able to watch as much of the drama at a time as one pleases. (If you don't need to sleep, anyhow!).

This isn't true of the first-time Israeli TV viewers who can't follow it straight through like a movie. A big plus for impatient viewers like me.

Thanks to your description, Mr Pique and I are going to watch it, possibly even this weekend. It otherwise would have been something I would have dismissed as being in a genre I generally dislike (and Mr. Pique loves), so you have effected a rapprochement.

Saw the last episode of season 2 last night. I don't think I've ever seen any drama that packs the emotional wallop of this one. I highly recommend.

Amanda it is now interesting to go back and read your initial post here. I'm curious if you think the show accurately portrays the situation there. I thought the Israelis came off very well, considering the lunacy they faced. While the complexity of the Palestinian side was portrayed well, and sympathetically, it's hard not to conclude from watching this that Israel's hand is being forced by a few lunatics who don't represent the Palestinian majority.

quote:

Originally posted by piqué:
Saw the last episode of season 2 last night. I don't think I've ever seen any drama that packs the emotional wallop of this one. I highly recommend.

Amanda it is now interesting to go back and read your initial post here. I'm curious if you think the show accurately portrays the situation there. I thought the Israelis came off very well, considering the lunacy they faced. While the complexity of the Palestinian side was portrayed well, and sympathetically, it's hard not to conclude from watching this that Israel's hand is being forced by a few lunatics who don't represent the Palestinian majority.

Pique, I'm glad you enjoyed FAUDA as much as I did.

About your question, I regret being unable to agree that the Palestinians are mostly sane and positive in their attitudes to Israel (thus differing from what you call extremist fanatics). (Note that the "man-in-the-street" Palestinians aren't portrayed in FAUDA as non-violent or tolerant toward Jews nor as anti-jihadist.)

Likewise (though you didn't ask) are Israelis (most anyhow) as understanding toward Palestinians as they once were. An increasing split in Israel between left and right marks a sad change. The growing international double standard towards Israel makes that understandable but unfortunate. Israel is identified with the colonial period is unjust and inaccurate because of the many differences. It's a great challenge per cognitive dissonance to the traditional Jewish support for the underdog (contrary to how she is perceived). Plus, of course, there's the increasing split between Israeli and Diaspora Jews. Very complicated.

But back to the Palestinians. Their all-encompassing, intense "education" from infancy about the evil of Jews (they try to use the term Israeli instead of Jews, but mostly slip up and for good reasons; they identify the two as does much the rest of the world. That perniciously includes among the Left, Jewish included (a great liability in the US, in combatting the Trumpist RW). AFAIC the world, most notably of course, Palestinians, really don't "get it" about Jewish history. Expert Palestinian propaganda has done its job well at home as abroad. That, and their demographic "jihad" are their most powerful weapons. Compare the numbers:
an original four hundred K Arab refugees from Israel during the '48 War to ~ 4 to 5 million Palestinians today, most of whom incredibly claim a "Right of Return". Right! But without any mention of the nine hundred K Jews expelled from Arab countries at the same time, all of whom had their property confiscated without compensation. If nothing else, that discrepancy proves how plain weird and unbalanced the propaganda war has been.

Anyhow, even though I haven't been there, I've done my best to stay informed about the situation, including making a collossal effort to stay abreast of the injustices Israel HAS perpetrated - especially on the West Bank. (However bloody, I can't blame Israel as much for Gaza as the world does, considering the back story of Hamas' exploitation of schools and hospitals as bomb factories and missile launching sites thus making them serve double duty, both militarily and in the media.) OTOH it DOES hurt to hear of Israeli mistreatment of West Bank residents, along with confiscation of their family property. Also, superiority attitudes towards them by extremist Jewish settlers.* Not all, but "enough". )

As Kathy would be the first to comment, it's been a long time since I was in Israel, least of all directly involved in day to day life. Experiencing things IS different. I know much has changed since I lived there (decades ago) and I think things were much more positive and even-handed then than now. What I see as traditional Jewish values have eroded however much it's understandable considering their growing "existential threat" (which is NOT just a buzz-word). That, plus the growing cancer of one-sided media coverage outside Israel.

I do my best, though, to keep abreast of current attitudes by communication - online - with modern Israelis, the young especially. Also, reading. Making a strenuous effort to study articles by and about what's going on, left and right (FAR more, than so-called anti-Zionism, as seen on all sides). Still, bottom line - not good. There's been a strong shift to the right in Israel, albeit with much to justify it. How to be a "dove" when surrounded by hawks - even vultures - on the other side and with near universal censure of Israel internationally? Besides which most recently, with friends like Trump, who needs enemies? That is, much as recognition of Jerusalem is welcomed in Israel. To digress, Muslims have numerous major holy sites, beginning with Mecca, while Jews highlight Jerusalem in daily prayers as much symbolically as religiously. Considering equivalency there is unspeakably unjust.

Since I left, there have been many "brilliant" innovations too - suicide bombings have expanded with elaborate tunneling and more advanced missiles introduced (leading to the genius "Iron Dome" invention). All of this makes it hard even to imagine Israel being safe, if major territory were ceded on the West Bank. Besides which, Israel has needed enough added land at her original indefensible borders (17 km at her "waist"?) even back when the original partition was made. This FWIW is ESPECIALLY true of the Golan Heights, besides which the contested land was won in wars of aggression against Israel. The notion that Israel seized it out of a clear blue sky is more than outrageous.

Besides that, even the West Bank itself was never an autonomous Palestinian country but had been absorbed by Jordan. It was over-run by Israel after another Arab-Israeli war failed the Palestinians who refused (think Arafat) to take advantage of Israeli's strategic "Land for Peace" initiative - an opportunity for peace-lovers on both sides.

On the other hand, as one sign of the times (Israeli's rightward turn), there's a disgusting Knesset member who is a frankly anti-Arab racist - she wouldn't have been out of place in Nazi Germany. (Justice - ha - Minister, Ayelet Shaked) She'd never have been tolerated in Israel's past. However, it's not to be forgotten that Israel has a free press despite all, and that whereas Arabs are condescended to by many - how can any war be fought without some dehumanization to permit killing fellow mortals? (So it was even
in WWI by Germans and French, fighting each other.) Consider though that Israeli Arab citizens are undoubtedly the best off of any in the rest of the Arab world, also serving in the Knesset while having access to their own free press.

Returning to your question about Palestinians (especially outside of Israel), I can't agree that they are mostly sane and sensible, manipulated by a very few fanatics - presumably atypical. Although they can't freely vote or protest their terrorist leaders (FYI Gazans are finally trying to oust Hamas - courageously), the "Cause" IS shared with them, along with hatred.

Anti-Jewish "education", especially of the young, has had monstrous repercussions over the generations including genuine support of the "Shahid" ("Martyrs") movement - a tragedy for both sides of the conflict. I've read a lot about this indoctrination which is not paralleled in Israel (though it's growing in some circles). Example of Hamas' education of the young: a lengthy study in the New Yorker, horrifyingly, written decades ago. The main conclusion by the erudite author - there's no escape from the profound hatred of Israel by the many generations inculcated by it as self-evident and supported by their elders. (Examples: posters celebrating martyrdom throughout the Palestinian world, with pictures of young martyrs traded as American youth trade baseball cards ).

Again, Hamas has been the primary teacher. True, that Israel has done a good deal which is legitimately shameful, but there is no hint of even-handedness in the Arab Press while the Israeli media is open. So much so that articles from HaAretz itself are often cited by Israel's enemies. (Not that there isn't increasing resentment and internal criticism of so-called "smolanim", leftists.) Too bad, there's no reciprocity of moderation in the Arab press.

Our own supposedly liberal press publishes considerable criticism of Israel and supporters. A single example is an Opinion piece in today's NYTimes An inflammatory Palestinian claims among much else, that Israel "forcibly" seized the Golan Heights.

The Golan Heights were won in the 6-Day War and in the case of Syria (the Golan was part of Syria), after the Syrian air force, attacked Israel. Even without being a military strategist, I know like anyone examining the map, that this impregnable mountainous region MUST be in Israeli hands to prevent snipers picking off Israeli farmers below like fish in a barrel.

(A Belgium friend clarified recently in conversation that the German speakers in his country belong only to a small minority in a border region. It was granted to Belgium after WII as a penalty to Germany. This single revanchiste claim settled after a war is an example of the evolution of countries' borders, forgotten over time.

Only Israel's alleged illegitimacy is remembered and expounded upon by international courts. Seventy five years and four major wars later!)

Anyhow, I'm afraid Palestinian attitudes, colored by generations of learned hatred and encouragement to believe in their right to regain long-lost family land are more fixed that we might want to believe. And NOT determined by Israeli wrongdoing (as is almost universally claimed) rather than by the deliberate education of their youth, generation after generation, so that peaceful coexistence seems impossible. Third parties insure that this sore remains festering, doing no good to anyone in the conflict. This makes the chances of returning West Bank territory (safely, for Israel) hard even to imagine.

If anything, anger at the false narrative is growing - not that extremist settlers have helped matters any. (They are not all in that category - note a recent NYT article by a liberal Tel Avivan journalist who lived among them for six months.)

So, "in long", no, I do NOT think the extremist, terrorist-affiliated Palestinians are atypical in their attitudes toward Israel. I really do NOT believe they want peace as Israel does. Their leaders turned down serious offers from Israel, and the opportunities that were lost were primarily determined by the Arab side. Since then, things look only more bleak. IMO.

True, the greater part of their population do not like their terrorist leaders who control them - besides which, they are overall recognized as exploiting immense international funds much needed for humanitarian purposes. Instead, they use them to foment increasing resentment and for military ends.

*An aside, I am dismayed by the religious Zionist West Bank settlers who stress their religious rather than political and/or strategic rights to land there.

When people reason their rights as based effectively on "what G-d told them", I can't help seeing them as equivalent be they Jews, Christians or Muslims. Whatever they believe, it just doesn't belong in today's world.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I had gotten the impression from the show that the leadership of the Palestinian Authority (it was called the Palestinian Protection League or something like that) was working with Israel and even admired Israel. But maybe that was just an invention of the writers.

Pique, two things:

First, I significantly edited my over hastily written commentary (ugh, for many of the typos which distorted the meaning).

Second, I really haven't a clue about the role of the Palestinian Authority vis a vis Israel, nor how it is regarded among the Palestinians themselves.

That's the kind of thing I would undoubtedly have if not a correct opinion, at least, a more informed one if I had continued to live in Israel.

Fauda certainly presented as a fait accompli, not only a cosy relationship between Israel and the PLA, but one fraught with double dealing against their own people - at least, the terrorist organizations.

I wonder what the very fact that the writers allowed themselves to do that means. It must certainly be inflammatory if it's not true. I HAVE heard that Abbas is no longer popular.

I see reading that he is quite old (for his role, at least - 83). Here is a Reuters commentary about how he's viewed, FWIW.

https://www.reuters.com/articl...inians-idUSKCN1MD2H7

And here is a (to me) still more interesting snippet describing how Abbas completely contradicted the traditional Palestinian narrative - re their history books. That is, importantly, the question about why and how Arab Israelis (AKA the Arab Palestinians of the region) left during the '48 War of Independence in Israel's language.

A radical redefinition of the infamous "NAKBA" or "Catastrophe" as told by Palestinians.

I was astounded at this discrepancy!

Abbas radically retells the Palestinian narrative - absolutely key

quote:

Originally posted by Amanda:
Pique, two things:

First, I significantly edited my over hastily written commentary (ugh, for many of the typos which distorted the meaning).

Second, I really haven't a clue about the role of the Palestinian Authority vis a vis Israel, nor how it is regarded among the Palestinians themselves.

That's the kind of thing I would undoubtedly have if not a correct opinion, at least, a more informed one if I had continued to live in Israel.

Fauda certainly presented as a fait accompli, not only a cosy relationship between Israel and the PLA, but one fraught with double dealing against their own people - at least, the terrorist organizations.

I wonder what the very fact that the writers allowed themselves to do that means. It must certainly be inflammatory if it's not true. I HAVE heard that Abbas is no longer popular.

I see reading that he is quite old (for his role, at least - 83). Here is a Reuters commentary about how he's viewed, FWIW.

https://www.reuters.com/articl...inians-idUSKCN1MD2H7

And here is a (to me) still more interesting snippet describing how Abbas completely contradicted the traditional Palestinian narrative - re their history books. That is, importantly, the question about why and how Arab Israelis (AKA the Arab Palestinians of the region) left during the '48 War of Independence in Israel's language.

A radical redefinition of the infamous "NAKBA" or "Catastrophe" as told by Palestinians.

I was astounded at this discrepancy!

Abbas radically retells the Palestinian narrative - absolutely key

Yes, that is indeed astounding. A little oral history... a cousin who was there in 1948 told another cousin of mine that Jews and Arabs lived and worked together peacefully at that time. With that bit of background I find it entirely credible that the Jews begged their Arab friends and neighbors to stay.

That gives me some hope.

At the same time, though, I am saddened that such a voice doesn't have more power (and apparently, he does not).

What an amazing change - and spoken to the "PLO Consultative Conference" as recently as last December.

Maybe knowing his days are limited both as PLA President and on earth, he is finally daring to speak his truth and contradict the false narrative.

I wish more could hear him - the BDS supporters, to start, every one of them. What ignorami! Abbas has been there for so long, he knows so much more than they do. He was, there - fifteen, when the war occurred. He IS a history book!

He knows so much more than all the young Palestinians - middle aged and even older too,
since the indoctrination began so early. And not just in their history books but far worse, through what they were told in sermons, on TV and from everyone they trust.

We're seeing the results of generations of brainwashing and now extrapolated to the rest of the world who've had everything twisted to them, for whatever reason.

Health news of Abbas today.
Not looking good.
I didn't realize until recently (yesterday, on account of your query about the PLA) how important he is.

May he recover from this threatening condition (apparently against all odds). Now I see him kind of like Ruth Ginsberg - old, but significant in the political life they impact.

https://www.ynetnews.com/artic...l&utm_medium=organic

*********
Oh, I see that like so many items peculiarly highlighted now, that this item is actually many months old. Good that he was resilient enough to survive. Long may he live!