quote:

Originally posted by wtg:
Steve - any suggestions as to brand? We were going to go with the most accessible product, which is the Eaton branded Metalux fixtures that HD carries. They're made by Cooper. They're not that expensive but you often get what you pay for.

We've put in a lot of the HD Metalux fixtures and haven't had any trouble with them.

Old railing:



The replacement:





Hallway gets fresh paint on Monday....

very nice!

The railing looks terrific!

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:

(You’re going to love the flat panel LEDs.)

You were absolutely right -- those puppies are phenomenal! I was a little worried that the 4000K color was going to be off-putting, but it's great. The frosted lens spreads the light out softly and evenly. We didn't do much else (yet) down there in terms of remodeling, but the lights alone have made it a much more inviting place to be working in.

Highly recommend!

I continue to work in the basement getting rid of stuff. Will post pics at some point when it no longer looks like a bomb went off down there...

wtg, all your work is both beautiful and impressive - haven't been following this thread as I have SO much deferred maintenance I couldn't bear to be reminded of it until I feel up to tackling it.

Seeing the references to flat LED lights, though, reminded me of the one I intend to install in my kitchen to replace a cloud fixture whose broken lens is too ridiculously expensive to replace (~$150 for the lens alone?! Guess they're gouging people who still own the outdated fixtures still out there).

Besides I like the looks of the flat LED lights which have come out since then. I can get one about the same size - that is, the square footage. First I need to get water damage on the ceiling fixed (some kind of bubbling occurred - not a simple job) - that's delayed replacing the light fixture.

But I HAVE been worried about how bright it's apt to be, having had problems choosing overhead lights in other rooms. It's so hard to tell how bright a fixture is going to be just looking at it in a store, especially big box stores where everything is illuminated side by side.

Not counting long grow lights above the sink, keeping herbs alive (that's in front of a sunbay window beyond), my kitchen/ette is about 10' X 12'. That's adjoining a dinette about the same size (that has a candle bulb chandelier with five 40 watt dimmable bulbs).

Suggestions for wattage for that flat LED fixture - figured on one about 2' X 2'? I can't figure out how to translate wattage to lumens even in a relatively straightforward fixture - i.e., where you don't need to factor in the lens and framing around the bulbs, least of all LED. I had to return one I thought was perfect for a bedroom-office based on how it looked in the showroom. Once up, though, it turned out the pretty oak frame blocked over half the light, not even counting the frosted lens. It's such a nuisance to have to return them when they don't work out - most of all after trying to install one and only then seeing. And lots of unneccessary labor. (That ceiling still has holes in the plaster. )

And based on what wtg mentioned, looks like I need to make decisions about the color of the bulbs too. Help!

Right now, I'm making do in the kitchen with two 40 watt u-shaped flourescents I found on sale and they are TOO bright even though I like to have work surfaces well-illuminated. (No lens owing to the cost of the cloud shaped one that broke.)

I'd hate to once more put up a fixture and have to return it! Hellishly hard to transport them both ways too.

Amanda, you'll get around to it when you get around to it. I had hoped that the stories of my projects would be of interest to folks that might find themselves in the rut we did for so many years. Some of the projects that got taken care of recently at our house involved materials purchased a decade ago. Seriously. Life got in the way in the intervening years....don't sweat it....

As for the LED flat panel lights...we bought the 2' x 4' panels. They put out the same amount of light (lumens) as the 2' x 2' version (that surprised me), but it's spread out more because the surface area of the lens is doubled. The light doesn't look as intense on the larger fixture.

Also to consider...LEDs, unlike fluorescents, can be dimmed but it requires running low voltage wiring from the fixture to the dimmer switch, which of course raises the cost of the labor required to install. And the dimmer switch is a special kind for dimming LEDs and it's more expensive than a regular dimmer. I was certain we would need dimmers on our basement lights but opted to put them in without and see how they looked. They're fine and I'm glad I didn't spend the extra money for dimmers.

There are a lot of styles to choose from. Ours were the type that are installed in a suspended ceiling. Should you find yourself at your local Home Depot or other home improvement store, just stop by the lighting department and take a look at what they have wired up on display. At least you can get familiar with what's available.

As for light color, as you move up the spectrum from 2700K to 3000K to 4000K to 5000K, you go from yellowish to more white to bluish (warm white to cool white to daylight). If you are using cool white fluorescents, they are probablky 4000K. Have to say though, the Metalux LEDs we installed are the same 4000K as the old fluorescents, but the light is much nicer. Some people like daylight types, but they're not my thing.

http://www.westinghouselightin...lor-temperature.aspx

WTG, the amount of research you put in to your projects is truly impressive. I’ll add something to your storehouse of knowledge.

We don’t open walls any more. Everything is wireless and battery powered. Dimming, occupancy sensors, daylight harvesting - it’s all wireless. Damnedest thing I’ve ever seen.

Amanda, tell your Sparky you want the LED equivalent of whatever you have now. If he puts in something else don’t pay him.

Oh, Steve...our handydude found two live wires going to nowhere when he opened up the boxes to install those LEDs in the basement. He followed the other end of the wire to its destination and pulled them out after confirming they were just leftovers.

They did have wire nuts on them, but still....

edit: Good to know about the wireless stuff....

Are you in the part of Chicagoland where everything in the house has to be in conduit?

Regrettably, yes. I think even the low voltage goes in some type of pipe.

Plus the wire in our 1960s house is solid rather than stranded and there are a lot of wires running through the conduit. Makes it interesting to try and make changes.

quote:

Originally posted by wtg:
Regrettably, yes. I think even the low voltage goes in some type of pipe.

Plus the wire in our 1960s house is solid rather than stranded and there are a lot of wires running through the conduit. Makes it interesting to try and make changes.

No worries! Putting everything in conduit increases the initial cost but is a terrific value-add over the long run. Solid wire is fine - we almost never use stranded.

As for low voltage, having that in conduit is a huge advantage. My house is wired in “Twinlead” antenna cable and 24 pair intercom cable, both of which are completely worthless. I installed Cat3 Cable some years ago which is also worthless in this day and age. I am fortunate in that wireless technology is going to make in wall wiring obsolete very quickly but there is nothing wrong with having a way to update your low-voltage wiring when technology changes

That's great, Steve, about soon being able to avoid putting in wires. One thing I learned about farming out electrical is that whenever one needs to "fish" wires the cost zooms up.

How lovely that will soon be avoided even if at first the conduit pipes will be at least as costly.

I've not had great luck with all my "Sparkies". One firm I had in to do a lot of miscellaneous work (including replacing loose two prong receptacles) made a complete hash of everything - and more! (few examples: gouged the oak flooring using a ladder so old the rubber had worn off - I myself had to lend them a drop cloth! And failed to ground those receptacles, replacing them with three pronged ones - even I knew that was remiss!)

Called in the electrical inspector and after writing up ten citations, he stopped, saying more would put them out of business and he'd have mercy.
Ha!

When I hired a far more reputable firm to redo everything (NOT paying the first sleazes), believe it or not, THEY - sleazes - sued me. Worse, even with the citations and all, I LOST! Incredibly, it turns out that here at least, district magistrates don't have to justify their decisions. Don't know what was behind it - perhaps I annoyed him by not being efficient enough or something (I was alone, armed only with "Represent Yourself in Small Claims Court" and 10 mg of Valium), while they hired a lawyer. NOT supposed to be necessary at that level court. The magistrate liked him.

It was a hard decision to appeal it (they lost, of course) knowing the lawyer would end up taking most of the gain, but they just made me so mad! (Forgot to mention they even broke a statue and several spindles, afterwards carefully balancing them together. I guess they hoped I wouldn't notice it until later and not realize they'd done it.).

They're tied for first place in most dishonest and incompetent contractors I've encountered in my years here - which is saying something. One of the only times I came out ahead was when my home owners insurance company sued a contractor on my behalf after I filed a claim for their sizeable theft! (Amish contractors too! )

Whatever, I suspect there's also lot of friendly finagling (mutual back-scratching) between the magistrates and contractors , though - even involving the police too often in this rural area.
It's almost as corrupt as a 3rd world country. (No coincidence that Jerry Sandusky and corps got away with the horror he did for so long, with connivance between the police and the Paterno football industry. ). In any case, failing to pay when I'm disatisfied hasn't been a great fallback here in my experience. I'm not Trump, after all, and as a single woman, have tended to be taken advantage of. Plus the internal corruption I alluded to.

Just a digression free-associating to your suggestion not to pay. Still makes me furious (and the two year court case and lawyer error itself, were very stressful too!) Yes, clearly, I need to be more careful choosing my contractors but even highly reputed ones have screwed me quite incredibly!

At least, we had an electrical inspector by the time the above incident occurred - didn't when I moved here! This area is backwards (medically too, but that's another story). And not just backward, but corrupt.

PS WTG many thanks for your encouragement and information, etc. Very helpful! And to think I imagined I just had to make sure the wiring between the old fixture and the new matched up!