https://www.theguardian.com/us...all-trans-student-he

I want it to be known that my god, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, insists that Donald Trump be called a moronic nutbag. It would violate my religious freedom not to do so.

US Constitution.

Separation of church and state.

Done.

Sounds like a case of all parties being stupidly stubborn. His claim of conscience is a bit far fetched.

The suit states that Vlaming “sincerely believes that referring to a female as a male by using an objectively male pronoun is telling a lie”.

OK, so there's the basis of his religious freedom claim, I guess. The Bible (assuming that) says thou shalt not bear false witness, ergo using preferred pronouns is a lie and against his religion.

Yeah, agree, his claim of conscience seems a bit far-fetched. I wonder if he refuses to use nicknames for the same reason? I mean, a kid's parents named him, her, or they whatever they named him (or her, or they), therefore using nicknames is not calling the kid by their true name.

Does he eat impossible burgers?

Lies!

OMG, can I represent the school district? This is so easy.

You go through everything the teacher has ever written in which he refers to females as "you guys" or uses gendered terminology for occupations that are not the exclusive province of one gender (e.g. "firefighters" as "firemen.") I'd also be on the lookout for instances where the teacher referred to "mankind."

Verdict for the school district.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikhailoh:
Sounds like a case of all parties being stupidly stubborn. His claim of conscience is a bit far fetched.

Well . . .

I wouldn't say the student is being stupidly stubborn.

Which reminds me of a story.

I was checking into a Courtyard Marriott in downtown Phoenix, and the desk clerk called me "Mrs. Sphinx." I said, "Mrs.? Let's go with Ms."

When I was leaving, the desk clerk asked, "Can I ask you why it is 'Ms.'?" So I explained that he doesn't know my marital status, so it is presumptuous to choose Mrs., and my marital status has nothing to do with the task at hand. I added that nowadays, the default is "Ms." unless the person chooses something different.

I wonder if his religion prohibits his addressing me as "Ms." because single women shouldn't travel alone? Or women my age ought to be married?

Cindy -- who opted not to explain that "Mrs. Sphinx" would never be correct as a matter of etiquette because it would have to be my husband's last name, and Mrs. Sphinx is my mother

Personally, I think it'll depend on the jury. But it also could turn on the fact that, like Kim Davis, we are talking about a public employee, and not about a baker.

I would. But then I think being forced to refer to someone a certain way is fundamentally wrong and goes bad places. At some point you need to realize the world does not cater to your whims.

Now, dont get me wrong. I know and respect a couple great trans kids and I would respect their wishes. I just don’t think anyone should have to.

I guess I don't follow you, Mik.

Teachers call students by whatever the student requests. This goes to the point of teachers/schools specifically asking students for their nickname on paperwork.

This is really a throwback. I remember back in the day when Muhammad Ali changes his name and some people refused to stop calling him Cassius Clay. Why? They didn't want to show him the respect of addressing him in the way he preferred.

The teacher here is doing the exact same thing. He is disrespecting the student, deliberately. Not cool.

I am also quite irked that he is hiding behind religion to do this. I suspect he and I share the same faith, more or less. There is *nothing* to his position to be found anywhere in the faith. And I am not a fan of people hiding behind their religions (or in this case, twisting theology) to be mean to a child.

We are not talking about someone’s name here. We are talking about a pronoun.

A pronoun is a proxy for a name.

If the teacher did not want to use the requested pronoun, he could have used the child's name every time.

The teacher chose not to.

quote:

They didn't want to show him the respect of addressing him in the way he preferred.

This. Calling someone by their name as they prefer, and by extension, using their preferred pronoun, is an act of showing that person respect. This teacher chose to display his lack of respect for the student. As Cindy said, he could have chosen to obscure his lack of respect by avoiding using any pronoun.

Teachers need to behave fairly to all students, that includes showing them respect. If a teacher can't do that, they need to find a different line of work.

This, to me, is far worse, than calling or not calling someone by a preferred nickname. For a trans person, this is a reflection of who they are at their core, and they may have had to go through a huge struggle to get there. For a teacher to say, effectively, I don’t care what you want or what you’ve been through, I refuse to see you the way you see yourself, is awful.

Yes to all of that Quirt.

It is so important for teachers to *ratify* students, to *affirm* them, to say "I see you, I recognize you and accept you for who you are right now, in this moment."

That is a part of my job that I take very seriously.

Yes to both Quirt & SK. 100%.