Well, we have decided it's time to upgrade our vehicle.
One of our biggest reasons for upgrading is safety. We currently have a Honda Fit and although this has been a great car, if we want to do a major drive to visit family, we'd rather have something larger. So right now we are thinking to upgrade to either to a sedan-type car or a (subcompact?) SUV.

Right now on the list are, in the sedan category: Toyota Camry (maybe get a hybrid??), Honda Civic (there are multiple models); and in the SUV category are Honda CRV or Toyota Rav4...

I don't know if we'll consider other makes or not. Mr. SK's car in Japan was a Toyota, before that he had a Honda, and of course we have a Honda right now (although my car in Japan was a Subaru).

So, beyond safety and reliability ratings, and then also mileage (and figuring out if we want to go with a hybrid or not), what else should we be considering?

Also, in terms of timing, is there a better time to buy, such as before the end of this year versus January/February?

Oh, and we are sort of going back and forth about whether to buy new or used.... Mr. SK would prefer new, but I might be ok if we could find a 1-2 year old car, but not much older than that I think.

Oh, and we won't be leasing, FWIW.

Re safety, given the number of big pick-ups on the road (and there are even more down here!), would we be safer in an SUV than in a sedan?

So, I guess the questions are:
1. safety? sedan vs. SUV
2. new vs. slightly used
3. hybrid or not
4. Toyota vs. Honda
5. timing of purchase

Any advice/suggestions will be appreciated!

Used Honda and Toyota that are only 1~2 years old are very hard to come by. Car leases usually last 3 years, so even if you look at cars that just come off lease, it would be at least three years old. Maybe check rental companies that might have some Toyota coming off its rental fleet, even then 2 years or newer is rare. (Probably no Honda from rental fleet, don't think I have ever seen any rental company renting Honda.)

I have driven Honda Fit, Accord, Civic, and Odyssey (minivan), I have driven Toyota Camry, Corolla, and long ago also a Tercel. Personally, I favor Honda if ever so slightly, Honda just feels a bit more "stable" to me. But I have no qualm driving a Toyota.

I see that you have Civic on your list but not Corolla, I suppose I'd say that Corolla is is the same size class as the Civic, so logically if you can consider a Civic you can also consider a Corolla.

As for driving long distances across multiple states, I have done most of that sort of driving using the Odyssey (and before that, the Camry), but that's only because I needed the capacity to transport the number of people and the cargo/luggages. When driving solo or with only one other person, I have also driven across multiple states in a Civic and in a Corolla (and long ago also in a Tercel). They work fine for that purpose as far I am concerned.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the comments!

quote:

Used Honda and Toyota that are only 1~2 years old are very hard to come by.

Hmm, that's good to know! In that case, we might prioritize new... Not sure yet.

RE the sedan vs. suv question, one thing I've heard is that suvs are a little bouncy and so might be less comfortable on a longer trip, do you have experience or an opinion about that?

I would add that economy cars such as the ones you list tend not to lose a lot of value in their first year or two, unlike more expensive ones.


Still, you could potentially save some money getting a used one, and I'd trust the reliability of a used Honda or Toyota.

But as Ax points out your options will be much more limited.



As for timing end of month is a good time and end of year is a great time. Normally at least. This year could differ - they may simply be writing off 2020 as a not-great year and be perfectly happy to book a sale in early 2021 instead of late 2020. I'm not sure.

One thing I did on our last two purchases (Honda Fit and Toyota Prius) is do internet-only buying.


I basically decided exactly what I wanted, then via email I asked several dealers for their best out-the-door price.

A few wouldn't play, and said I should come in. Some tried to get me to come in but then still participated once I said no.


But in each case on got a few dealerships to play along. I promised them I would accept the lowest price and not shop the lowest price back around to the other dealers - I wanted them to know that they would not be wasting their time giving me a good deal.



In both cases I was paying cash and had no trade in, which made this approach easier. I feel I got really good deals with both purchases.

I have had good luck with used Toyotas. The 2015 I have now was just under 2 years old when I got it.

This one and the last two other used cars I bought were part of fleets/rentals. They are bought in bulk and turned over fairly regularly. I find they run great as I expect they are maintained better than the average private owner.

They don't always have all the bells and whistles, but the prices are pretty good.

I buy like jon does..My dealer has online inventory, I look it over, pick two I like. I set up a test drive and pick one, pay cash. Has worked very well for me thus far.

We've owned Honda, Toyota/Lexus, and Subaru cars. Oh, and one totally awful Ford minivan and a so-so Ford Explorer, but we won't talk about those.

Some general impressions based on trends I've observed in cars made by certain manufacturers...

We moved away from Honda because it seemed we had a lot more things going wrong, especially with brakes and transmissions; the Toyotas seemed more bullet-proof.

Haven't owned a Honda for a while but have ridden regularly in newer ones. Cars I was pretty familiar with included a 1981 Accord, 1986 Prelude, 1984 Accord, 1997 Accord. Rode a lot in an Element (total buckboard - I hated it). I've driven a 2019 CRV on a limited basis.

Handling in Hondas is great (our Prelude cornered like it was on rails) but the suspension on Hondas generally seems to be on the firm side and on long trips it would feel like you felt all the bumps. I would feel pretty tired after the five hour trip to Door County. I also find the seats to be less comfortable for me than Toyotas or Subarus. Not enough thigh support and I always felt like I was sitting on a board.

On the Toyota front....we have owned or routinely driven: a 2003 Toyota Sienna minivan, a 1987 Camry wagon, a 1999 Lexus sedan, and a 2015 Camry sedan. Handling is not nearly as precise as the Hondas, maybe a bit mushy, but much nicer on the road . Seats are contoured and provide support in all the right places. They seem to run forever with minimal maintenance.

We have a 2016 Subaru Outback. I love driving this car, especially on the expressway. Handles great, with a surer feel than the Toyotas without the harsh ride of the Hondas. Seats feel like they were made for me. Best of all worlds.

As far as ride and whether to go with a sedan or an SUV....you just have to take them out and test drive them. When we were looking to buy a few years back we knew we were leaning towards Subaru but didn't know if we wanted a Forester or Outback. On paper they didn't seem all that different, but when we drove them we found there was a huge difference between them in terms of finish, road feel, and interior noise. The Outback won hands down for us. The ride in the Forester was noisier and bouncier and the interior looked cheesy. And the difference in price wasn't that great.

Be sure to have one of you sit in the back seat while the other drives. You'd be surprised how different the ride is back there in various cars. Riding in the back seat of my friend's Honda Element was like being in a torture chamber.

edit: And we did the same type of dealing that jon did.....

Good luck with the hunt....

quote:

economy cars such as the ones you list tend not to lose a lot of value in their first year or two, unlike more expensive ones.

That's good to know!

Re the online/email dealing, we will have a trade-in so that makes things a little complicated. OTOH, I'm sure they're doing more and more online bc of covid.

Re pricing.... I need to remember what happened when we bought this car... Mr. SK might remember the details, but we were at one dealer and I was upset about how the discussion went, like I thought the guy was not giving us his best price or something shady? Anyway, I feel like I need to prep better for this purchase than I did when we got our current car...

BL, I'm surprised to hear you like fleet cars, I would have thought they would be pretty abused by the time they are put up for sale.

Also, we don't need a lot of bells and whistles, but at least some....

BTW how do you know that a car is a fleet car? Or is there a special site/dealer that only sells fleet cars?

WTG, thanks for those comments!!

I think we may have to come back here for some advice when we get to the stage of dealing...

So, re SUV vs. sedans and safety, does anyone have any thoughts about that?

I'm recalling a discussion on WTF a while back about how dangerous pick-up trucks are for smaller cars...

We bought a used Toyota Rav-4 (2015) and we love it. Does great in the snow, comfortable to drive. And I like having the hatchback to haul bigger stuff around.

Check out the IIHS safety ratings for the car(s) you're interested in.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings

I'm moving this comment here that I accidentally posted in Jon's thread...

From random google search:

quote:

the Toyota Avalon Sedan and RAV4 Mini-SUV are in the top five safest vehicles you can buy for under $30,000

Hmmm.... Also, Avalon, I wasn't including that in my list because I was thinking it would be too expensive, but if it's in the same class (price-wise) as a RAV4, I could include it.

We drove an Avalon once as a rental and I loved it. Also my step-mother's car is an Avalon and IIRC when she bought it, she went back and for between it and a RAV4 and bought the Avalon because it was more comfortable for her (she's fairly petite and I think getting into the RAV4 was a challenge maybe?)

ETA: speaking of family member's cars, my mother has a Toyota Camry hybrid, so of course she thinks that's what we should get!

Jodi, good to know! Mr. SK also wants a hatchback, so he's partial to the RAV4 or Honda CRV.

WTG, thanks for that link!

Also, re the Avalon, I poked around online a bit and I suspect I'll decide it's too expensive. I feel like if we're going to get a sedan, it doesn't need to be that much, we'll look at the Camrys, Civics, Corollas... And then at the SUVs

Jodi, yours isn't a hybrid is it?

If memory serves, the Avalon is basically the Lexus ES350, except you'll have a few extra grand in your pocket because it's cheaper. But it's not cheap.

Like jodi, I like having the space to carry some larger items, so I give a nod to an SUV over a sedan.

Thanks WTG.

Yeah, I don't think I'll want to consider the Avalon because of the price.

Separate from what we can or can't afford, our last car purchase was a Honda Fit after all (which, for those of you unfamiliar, is only slightly more expensive than a toaster oven). The sticker shock looking at the Avalons is real!