In the meantime, some of the descriptions in this thread have piqued Mr. SK's interest!

-- although he also said "if we're going to move to an earthquake prone place, it should be Japan" ... I guess we're on the same page there? ish????

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Originally posted by QuirtEvans:

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
I don't know why the job search process seems so onerous to you. Does your field have practices that others don't? In mine, you send a cover letter, a "job market paper" that you would give in a seminar, and arrange for letters of recommendation. That's about it. Our first round interviews (at our professional meetings) will be entirely via Zoom. You would fly out to Santa Cruz only if you made it to the on-campus interview stage, which is serious.

I've witnessed the process second- and third-hand, and it varies. Sometimes it fairly simple; in other cases, it's incredibly onerous.

SK, I understand your problem, but it's a balance. You might not know what the job or local environment is like until you apply and visit. And you'll never know if you would have liked it or not. As Michael Jordan used to say, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

However, and I will not name a place because I'm guaranteed to offend someone, but if you're pretty sure you'd never live THERE, and the application process is burdensome, then by all means I'd never bother applying.

Mary Anna was going to pass on applying to Oklahoma because she thought I would never go for it. To the contrary, I encouraged her and told her if she got the job I'd move here, and we're both glad she did.

Quirt, thanks for these comments. (Which I almost missed!)

Yeah, I don't know, how much of a superstar do I think I am? I wonder if my half-assed job docs are good enough to get me a campus visit?

Then I could possibly prep the job docs without derailing my writing schedule... maybe....


P.S. I love that Michael Jordan quote btw!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:

quote:

onerous

Required documents:
*cover letter - not a huge problem, I'm good at writing these.
*cv - not a problem
*3 writing samples (this is def. the easiest part, I can use pubs)

These are the documents that will be the big time suck. If it was just writing them it wouldn't be too bad but they each need to be tailored to the program:
*research statement
*teaching philosophy
*DEI statement
*sample syllabus

ETA and this doesn't include the prep I would did if I was invited to a first-round interview, which would presumably happen this semester.

Our fields are similar in this respect. I've had to prepare all of these for various job applications. I once prepared an application for a university that wanted three (3!) syllabi.

I always thought that this was ridiculous in the first round, and I'm even more sure of that now that I'm serving on search committees. I would certainly spend a lot of time with finalists' supporting materials, but it's just not possible to spend that much time in the first round when you have more than a hundred applicants.

I think you're right to think carefully before you apply, just from a time management standpoint. But I might lower the bar from I'll-only-apply-if-I'm- sure-I'm-interested to I'll-apply-if-I-might-be-interested. They might surprise you with the salary, since they know what it costs to live there. Having said that, if you know it would take $250K to live there in a manner similar to your current mode of living, I think you can safely presume that taking this job would mean that you'd take a bigger hit than you're willing to take.

Re prepping the documents, yeah, I'll be curious what P*D thinks when he comes back to this thread, but I think it's onerous. Especially if I'm only going to apply to one place.

quote:

They might surprise you with the salary, since they know what it costs to live there. Having said that, if you know it would take $250K to live there in a manner similar to your current mode of living, I think you can safely presume that taking this job would mean that you'd take a bigger hit than you're willing to take.

Yes, this. I am going to go play around with that cost of living calculator a little more...

I am also going to reach out to a few connections and see if I can discretely get some more information about the program, the dept. etc.

We don't require the long research statement / teaching statement / DEI statement stuff. That would drive the search committee completely bonkers given the number of applications we receive. The last thing a three person committee wants to do is work through several thousand pages of largely irrelevant fluff to winnow the pool down to the 12 we'll interview in the first round.

If you have had to write up all of those statements in the past, and coming up for tenure will require you to do so anyway, then your external search documents are largely already written!

Lastly, why limit yourself to one opening? Play the field widely. And just as you plan to reach out discretely to connections about the UCSC position, use contacts to help advise you on other departments that may be interested in hiring at the senior level. In my field, the senior hiring process works a bit differently from entry-level positions. It's all openly advertised, of course, but there is often a lot of back channel conversation to gauge peoples' interest level in moving to a new university.

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
We don't require the long research statement / teaching statement / DEI statement stuff. That would drive the search committee completely bonkers given the number of applications we receive. The last thing a three person committee wants to do is work through several thousand pages of largely irrelevant fluff to winnow the pool down to the 12 we'll interview in the first round.

Yep, I agree, it is bonkers.

quote:

If you have had to write up all of those statements in the past, and coming up for tenure will require you to do so anyway, then your external search documents are largely already written!

I don't have a DEI statement and have never written one, my other statements would need revamping and tailoring. That's what I meant somewhere above about submitting half-assed docs.... If I totally committed to apply, it would take a lot of time to do the docs right, but just lightly tweaking what I already have wouldn't be so time-consuming. But then, if it doesn't get you to the first round, what's the point?

And my docs were all written in fall 2014, that's a long time ago in terms of what I've done since then. And I don't have to do my tenure docs until late next semester (well after my manuscript deadline).

quote:

Lastly, why limit yourself to one opening?

So far there's nothing else posted that I'm either interested in or that I would fit with. If there were, then it would be more efficient and I might not feel so unwilling to spend time to make good docs.

quote:

And just as you plan to reach out discretely to connections about the UCSC position, use contacts to help advise you on other departments that may be interested in hiring at the senior level. In my field, the senior hiring process works a bit differently from entry-level positions. It's all openly advertised, of course, but there is often a lot of back channel conversation to gauge peoples' interest level in moving to a new university.

I thought you needed to be past tenure to start doing this?

SK, what would you say your academic field is? Foreign languages (Japanese) or some type of ESL, or linguistics? I may be able to check on some market salary data, not sure. (I have to check the terms of our agreement.)

Nina, my field is applied linguistics/Japanese.

The job at Santa Cruz is attractive to me because the position is in an applied linguistics program and the job description is actually applied linguistics/Japanese (as opposed to "applicant will teach Japanese language courses and content courses in their field" which is the more common job description to see). ETA this isn't the only reason the job caught my eye, it's just the "short version" of what's attractive about it.

But I pretty much found out the salary info I wanted to know. It's not good.

I don't think I'll apply.

It also occurs to me that at least some California schools subsidize housing for faculty due to the cost of living issue. I'm not sure if it's UC or private (like I know Stanford does). It might be worth trying to find out.

Well, I did poke around and they do some things to help new faculty, but it doesn't seem like it would be enough.

And there are enough other cons to the position and location that I think it probably makes sense for me to let it go.

I did send some emails/inquiries to people I know and not all have responded yet, so I'm not 100% decided... but I'm definitely close to writing it off completely.

Once I make up my mine, I may delete this thread in a few days, I hope that's ok with everyone!

No problem to delete from me

quote:

But I have to finish this damn book and I have other writing deadlines as well, so committing myself to creating job docs is not something I want to take on lightly.

Sometimes, even often, I produce better results when I take assignments lightly. As a fellow perfectionist i do understand your dilemma. But along the way I have learned that I have a much easier time of it if all i commit to is producing a sh!tty first draft. An enterprise can loom so large in the mind that it overshadows a much easier reality.

Do it instead of something else, like playing the piano, and keep to your book writing schedule. If they offer you the job, you maybe able to negotiate for assistance with the high cost o living.