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Not getting paid?

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15 January 2019, 09:48 PM
ShiroKuro
Not getting paid?
quote:
Originally posted by jon-nyc:
Tweet from the Commandant of the USCG

https://twitter.com/ComdtUSCG/.../1085246326944788482


Disgraceful.


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15 January 2019, 09:51 PM
ShiroKuro
quote:
We should remember that some of the TSA employees calling in sick may be doing so in order to work at a different job. You know, a job that actually is paying current wages.


Yes, and I would certainly never criticize them, or anyone, who does this.

This whole situation is so horrible.

(Meanwhile, our McPresident was on the news in Japan for feeding fast food to the national college football champs Roll Eyes )


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My piano recordings at Box.Net: https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

15 January 2019, 10:40 PM
Nina
quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Regarding whether those who don’t work should be paid . . .

If your employer will not fire you but requires that you continue working without pay, that is a huge wage law violation.


Absolutely. I still don't understand how this is completely legal. I know that several unions and other employee groups are suing the federal government, stating the work without pay portion is a violation of the 13th amendment (involuntary servitude aka slavery). I think the legalese here says the 13th amendment is invalid because the furloughed employees can always quit their jobs (something that isn't typically part of slavery).

I don't get it. I think it's one of those deals where, since the constitution doesn't explicitly say "federal employees are guaranteed to be paid for work performed," those in power have chosen to say there is no guarantee (FLSA be damned).

I don't get it. It's patently unfair. However, because the employee can "choose" to walk away from their furloughed position, I think it's technically legal. What isn't legal, as far as I can tell, is forcing people to work without pay, period--so I think as long as the working people get back pay, it's legal. For those who are sitting at home, I think they're just out of luck.
15 January 2019, 10:57 PM
Cindysphinx
It’s a plain old wage violation.

You cannot have people volunteer to work for you without pay. You cannot have people work without pay even if you promise you will pay them later.

Some years ago, there was a lawsuit against the federal government because they did not compensate people who traveled on weekends or nights. As a result of that suit, we get compensatory time off.

That leads me to believe wage laws apply to the federal government.
15 January 2019, 10:58 PM
Cindysphinx
I think all federal workers should bring a bag of trash to leave in front of the White House.
15 January 2019, 11:43 PM
Steve Miller
quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I think all federal workers should bring a bag of trash to leave in front of the White House.


Set it on fire and ring the doorbell.


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Life is short. Play with your dog.

15 January 2019, 11:58 PM
QuirtEvans
quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:


You cannot have people volunteer to work for you without pay.


Tell that to interns. I have yet to understand why internships do not violate wage and hour laws.
16 January 2019, 08:26 AM
Piano*Dad
Probably because interns are supposedly gaining valuable skills on the job and through explicit training. In the dim past, medical interns weren't paid. They are now... sort of.
16 January 2019, 09:20 AM
piqué
I think Trump's full intention is to tear down the government and destroy the country. It's hard to come to any other conclusion. McConnell must be indebted to the same powers that installed Trump. We're watching a slow coup.


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fear is the thief of dreams

16 January 2019, 09:51 AM
QuirtEvans
quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Probably because interns are supposedly gaining valuable skills on the job and through explicit training. In the dim past, medical interns weren't paid. They are now... sort of.


Here are the rules, some of which I do not find particularly persuasive. The only ones that should matter are #'s 2, 3, and 4. And maybe 5, although that's potentially subject to abuse.

quote:
The Test for Unpaid Interns and Students
Courts have used the “primary beneficiary test” to determine whether an intern or student is, in fact, an employee under the FLSA.2 In short, this test allows courts to examine the “economic reality” of the intern-employer relationship to determine which party is the “primary beneficiary” of the relationship. Courts have identified the following seven factors as part of the test:

The extent to which the intern and the employer clearly understand that there is no expectation of compensation. Any promise of compensation, express or implied, suggests that the intern is an employee—and vice versa.
The extent to which the internship provides training that would be similar to that which would be given in an educational environment, including the clinical and other hands-on training provided by educational institutions.
The extent to which the internship is tied to the intern’s formal education program by integrated coursework or the receipt of academic credit.
The extent to which the internship accommodates the intern’s academic commitments by corresponding to the academic calendar.
The extent to which the internship’s duration is limited to the period in which the internship provides the intern with beneficial learning.
The extent to which the intern’s work complements, rather than displaces, the work of paid employees while providing significant educational benefits to the intern.
The extent to which the intern and the employer understand that the internship is conducted without entitlement to a paid job at the conclusion of the internship.
Courts have described the “primary beneficiary test” as a flexible test, and no single factor is determinative. Accordingly, whether an intern or student is an employee under the FLSA necessarily depends on the unique circumstances of each case.


https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm
16 January 2019, 09:51 AM
jon-nyc
Pelosi writes to the WH telling them to postpone the State of the Union address until after the government is running or deliver it in writing. Citing concerns with DHS and Secret Service resources during shutdown.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Matti.../1085544081504260097

David Frum wins the internet today with his line:

“No TV for you, Donald, until you finish your homework”


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If you think looting is bad wait until I tell you about civil forfeiture.

16 January 2019, 10:35 AM
QuirtEvans
That's actually brilliant.
16 January 2019, 11:07 AM
wtg
I'm not so sure. Congresscritters are there every day; presumably there is some form of security in place.

The Tea Party folks wanted to do something similar back in the Obama days. Some discussion here:

https://www.outsidethebeltway....-state-of-the-union/

The invite is already out; I think Pelosi extended it immediately after becoming Speaker. Retracting the invite a stunt, and I don't think it's a very effective one.


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



17 January 2019, 02:41 PM
wtg


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/1...use-of-shutdown.html

From another article:

quote:
It was not immediately clear what trip Trump was referring to. Lawmakers often do not publicize foreign trips before they occur for security reasons.


https://wsau.com/news/articles...ghanistan-and-egypt/


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



17 January 2019, 03:21 PM
jon-nyc
David Frum: “Pro tip: Don’t get in a power-of-the-purse pissing match with the House of Representatives”


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If you think looting is bad wait until I tell you about civil forfeiture.