Per Mary Anna's request, here's an update on LL2's college search. I would greatly appreciate any feedback or info you have on any of these schools!

For context, college applications in general are WAY up this year even though the total pool of college students isn't. I think kids have seen the huge increase in apps over the past few years which has driven down acceptance rates and so they respond by applying to more schools, afraid they won't get in, and it has become a vicious circle where more apps every year = lower acceptance rates = even more apps the next year. Several kids in LL2's high school are applying or have applied to 20+ schools. Northeastern received over 90,000 applications for something like 4000 slots (making more than $7 million off application fees in the process!!!). It has been insane.

Keeping that in mind, I am happy that LL2 applied to only 9 schools...none of which should have been super-reachy for his stats. He is an excellent student (top 5% of his class, tons of APs, leadership in extracurriculars, 1510 on the SAT) but so are tons of other kids....and in this environment, unless you are curing cancer or an olympic athlete, it is hard to stand out from the zillion other kids with amazing grades, test scores, and extracurriculars. So it's really a crapshoot. And he's applying for computer science, which is a pretty competitive major even for schools that tend to have a high acceptance rate (Pitt, RIT, and UMD, for example, have high acceptance rates overall but low acceptance rates into Comp Sci.) Also, we won't qualify for any need based financial aid so any money he gets has to be from merit scholarships.

That said, here's a breakdown of his results, in order of "probably not a contender" to "favorites":

Champlain - still waiting for a decision, but he should get in here easily. He chose this due to the strength of the cybersecurity and video game programming majors, but then decided he doesn't want to specialize in either of those things. It's very small and he wasn't impressed when we visited (over Thanksgiving, after he already applied.) He loved Burlington, though. And Champlain has a campus in Montreal and places a lot of kids in internships there, which appeals to him. So if they throw enough money at him, this might still be a contender, but the odds are long.

Miami University of Ohio - accepted with honors, scholars, and a crap ton of money. I made him apply here because LL#1 goes here. I figured they'd throw money at him and they have. He was accepted into both the honors and scholars programs (which means he gets the super swanky dorm automatically) and got enough merit scholarship to bring the cost down to the 2nd cheapest school (around $24K per year all in). Miami is a known quantity - the dorms are nice, the comp sci program is fairly strong, and they hold the tuition steady for all 4 years. I think he'd do well here, but it fails the red state test. Plus he really wants to be in a city and Oxford OH most definitely is not that. The school is also more preppy than nerdy so culturally I feel like he might struggle to fit in, but I wouldn't have seen LL#1 fitting in there either and she has found her people. Still, he has made it clear that he has zero interest in living in Oxford OH so this is likely out.

Drexel - accepted with honors program. Drexel has a solid comp sci department with a strong coop program, but he wasn't a fan of the quarter system. It is a free application for all PA high school seniors so he applied anyway. Although he wants a city school, he's not thrilled with being in Philly (too close? too crimey?). And they only gave him about $9600 per year in merit, which barely makes a dent in the 80K/year cost. So while he hasn't officially turned them down, they are pretty much out unless they miraculously drop another 50K per year in his lap.

UDel - accepted with honors program. He visited and applied here but honestly I'm not sure exactly why. It's a nice campus but not in a city -- but it is a short train ride to either Philly or Baltimore. He's not in love, but it seemed like a solid option with a nice structure to their comp sci program. They gave him enough merit to make it his 3rd cheapest option right now. Not sure it is special enough in any way to unseat the front runners though. He plans to do more research on exactly what their comp sci program offers.

UMD College Park - accepted with Scholars program - He applied here because they are ranked astonishingly high for comp sci. It was a last minute decision to apply so none of us have ever visited the campus. They have not announced merit awards yet so I have no idea what the final price will be -- he got into the scholars program, which is one step below the honors program, so he is out of the running for the fancy full scholarships. I have heard that the most he might get is 12500 per year, which won't make it price competitive with the other schools. But he was admitted directly into Comp Sci which is apparently a really hard thing to get.....most people get admitted to the general school and then have to transfer to comp sci later....so he is flattered by that. Supposedly their comp sci program is amazing but we don't know enough about the specifics so this requires more research and maybe a campus visit -- any info any of the Marylanders have on UMD would be greatly appreciated! One strike against it is that he really doesn't want to work for the government or end up long term in the DC area and I think that is the primary draw of their program - they place comp sci kids into well paying government jobs.

WPI - accepted, I don't think they have an honors progam but they did give him a scholarship - this was one I suggested he apply to based on the fact that he wants to end up living internationally and he really likes humanities. WPIs main draw is that they are a tech school with a strong humanities program and a basically mandatory study abroad type thing. They have a completely unique curriculum - 7 week terms with 3 classes per term, and mostly all project based learning. I'm not sure whether he'd like that or hate it but he was impressed when we visited. The school is smallish - only 5000 kids, Worcester doesn't seem like a very nice city (I see lots of crime against students reported on the parents facebook page), and there's a good population in greek life which LL#2 has no interest in. They gave him one of their top scholarships but it still leaves us to pay over $50K per year COA. Not sure it's worth it when that pays for 2 years at some of the other schools. But it is in his preferred area of New England or upstate NY.

Northeastern - deferred to real decision. Northeastern had something like 70,000 early action applications. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they just couldn't physically get around to reading them all so they just started deferring people (of course keeping the $75 each they paid to apply though!) -- it seems like almost everyone I have heard of was deferred. They could be using deferrals to see which kids are really interested too - they don't have any supplemental essays so a lot of kids use them as a backup when applying to the ivies. They have a good comp sci program with a coop - a lot like drexel but in a much cooler city. We visited after he applied and while it was ok, it didn't knock our socks off. He is still interested in them but the odds of acceptance are even slimmer in real decision so it would not surprise any of us if he gets rejected. Which of course makes it hard to get excited about the school. And even if he gets in, their COA is something like $80K per year so yikes. He would love to end up in Boston but I don't see this happening.

Pitt - accepted but no money. honors program pending. He applied to Pitt super early -- they are rolling admission and the odds are better the earlier you apply. Their comp sci school is super competitive and he got in, but they haven't given him any scholarship at all. They say you can still get one up until March 1 but I am not hopeful -- people say the comp sci school hardly gives any money. His 2 best friends (who applied with similar grades and test scores but to other majors, not comp sci) got $10K/year each, so that is pissing him off. Pitt will announce honors program on March 1 and if he doesn't get that, that might be the nail in the coffin. This was his top choice - he loves Pittsburgh. But even in state it is still pushing $40K/year for the comp sci school which makes it more costly than RIT, UDel, and Miami. And the other schools are wooing him hard and he doesn't feel appreciated by Pitt right now. Hopefully he'll get the honors program which will turn things around.

RIT - accepted, lowest COA, honors program unknown yet. RIT is a unique case. LL#2 is hearing impaired and RIT is the home of the National Technical Institute for the Deaf. So he qualifies for crazy cheap tuition. On top of that, they gave him a big scholarship and a performing arts scholarship (he sent in an audition video). Total COA after all that is about $21K/year which is amazing. Rochester seems like a cool city but unfortunately, RIT isn't in Rochester - it's in the burbs, in what is basically an industrial park looking campus in the middle of a field, not walkable to anything. He really wanted a walkable urban campus so it fails that criteria badly. In fact, unlike most colleges where there's a walkable area of off campus student rentals, RIT doesn't even have that - most off campus students rent in the city of rochester and drive in every day (and given the amount of snowfall Rochester gets, I am not thrilled about that idea.) The male female ratio at RIT is also awful - like 2 guys for every girl. And they haven't announced the honors program yet so who knows if he will get in. On the other hand, the school is basically nerd paradise and I feel like LL#2 would fit in really well there - I was really impressed with everything we saw when we visited over the summer except for the isolated location of the campus. Their comp sci program is strong, they have an excellent co-op program but it isn't mandatory like it is at Drexel and Northeastern, and it is geographically in upstate NY which is one of the areas he would like to land in long term. Plus, although he's been mainstreamed his whole life, being in a school where he isn't the only hard of hearing person would probably be good for him and he would have people who know how to support his hearing issues if he needs support. And honestly, considering I can pay for 2 years of RIT for the cost of 1 year of Pitt, they are a strong contender. They also seem to have their act together as far as communicating and marketing. Pitt has basically sent us nothing and trying to get info out of them is like confronting a web of bureaucracy. RIT sends slick brochures and parent newsletters and they pick up the phone when I call and have answers to my questions and in general, they just seem to have it together. We are going to revisit campus over Presidents Day weekend so we shall see what he thinks after that.

Well, if you got through all that, thanks! Any info or thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated as this is a big decision to make!!!

Wow, what a minefield to navigate!

One of the Quirtlets is at U Rochester. She's had her struggles, but I think she's liked the city. She's lived on campus, in an apartment in the urban center, and now in a house with a roommate. Her housing decisions have been driven by a desire for a large dog, so are not pertinent to his situation. I did not see the urban apartment, but absent the dog and Covid, it sounded like something I would have enjoyed. (Prior to vaccinations, we were worried about her being in the elevator several times a day to walk the dog.) I'd think that it would be fun to be walking distance to downtown things, despite the need to drive (or perhaps ride the bus?) to campus.

It sounds like he has multiple good options, so congratulations on hopping that hurdle!

I love Northeastern. One advantage is that they have a lot of dual discipline comp sci programs, I think. A lot harder to get into than it was when I was growing up. Fabulous co-op program. Word is that they are very stingy on scholarships. Many, many kids from our high school applied, so the acceptance rate for our high school (Boston suburbs) may not be typical.

By the way, we (the Quirtlet and I) both really like the city of Rochester ... it's a city but livable, and easy to get around. And UR (which sounds like URI) seems to slant nerdy. The vibe I got in a full cafeteria was very smart, somewhat nerdy.

Snow. Lots and lots and lots of snow. In the decade of the 1970s, it was the second snowiest city in the U.S. (Buffalo was first).

Oops, I know almost nothing about those schools... I will say, yes Rochester is a nice city (and NY state is a great place to be, politically etc.)

Pittsburgh also has some nice things going for it as a city....

I was gonna suggest the uni where I teach until I got to the city part. You don't wanna come here!

Beyond that I'm useless to you.

Good luck!!

Upstate NY is blue city dots in a rural red sea. I don't know if that matters, but there it is. But the young one is going to college to learn, network, develop tight friendships more than cultivating an urban nightlife. The campus, and the friend network tend to drive things.

The university of Maryland threw a "presidential scholarship" at my eldest to try to lure him out of Virginia. It made Maryland roughly the same net cost as staying home at a Virginia institution of comparable quality. They have the virtues of size, so they have excellent programming for honors students or those who want a particular program very badly. These are good attributes since large mega-universities can swallow students up and leave them feeling very isolated and detached ... and in some huge classes during their first two years.

I visited UMCP once when my uncle was teaching there in the 80s. The campus is HUGE. Enormous. Students had to make sure they had enough time between classes if they were in different parts of the campus.

It is a long ride on the Metro to get into DC. Fine for a weekend jaunt, but a pain for an afternoon trip down to the Smithsonian or something like that. It's a matter of one's tolerance, I suppose.

And wouldn't that be out-of-state tuition?

I have a friend whose son is at RIT in Comp Sci. If you'd like to chat with a parent of a student, let me know and I will connect you.

I'm not super familiar with any of those schools, so I'll just give my general view based on my own two kids (yeah, small sample size, I get it...)

Big fan of the honors programs, double extra credit if they have an honors dorm. This meant a lot for one of my kids, who really benefitted by living with and finding a friends network of other honors kids who actually studied. Most were scholarship kids, and if they didn't keep up their GPA, they were out. An additional bonus - many of her honors dorm friends are now doing really cool things. As someone mentioned, having the residential honors program is also a big help at a big school. My daughter was at ASU, but in the Barrett Honors College. Two big thumbs up.

Generally speaking, internships/coops are the way to getting a job, often before graduation--especially in a field like Comp Sci. Both my son and his gf were in the coop program at UBC and both got their jobs upon graduation as a direct result. BUT it shouldn't be the only criteria, because kids have a way of switching their majors. So my corollary is to not choose something ONLY because it has a strong Comp Sci program, unless LL2 is clearly driven to work in the field.

Comp Sci graduates are a hot commodity, so the final thought is to assume that if LL2 remains in that program and does well, he'll get a good job coming from any of these schools.

I went to Northeastern Law School and it was great.

Jf

Thanks everyone for the feedback. He has lots to think about. Pj I would love to talk to a current RIT parent. I'll shoot you a pm. Thanks!