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Originally posted by jon-nyc:
It's not a burden of proof. I'm just asking where your intuitions lie.

It's a tough question, I think, and people don't want to grapple with it. In fact, I think people are uncomfortable if the question is even asked.


Our intuitions don't seem to be bothered by the fact that the friskees are overwhelmingly male and young. (again, we may be bothered by the program overall, but there isn't a lot of noise being made that it discriminates against men). Surely that is in recognition of the fact that males are the vast majority of perpetrators of violent crime, and young ones at that.

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Originally posted by QuirtEvans:

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Originally posted by piqué:
NYC was a cesspool the 11 years I lived there (1981-1992) and people lived in near constant fear. If you didn't have your wits about you, the city would shred you. I left just before Giuliani and Bloomberg transformed the place into Topeka, by comparison. Some of their methods were draconian, but the city was unlivable as it was. I'm pretty sure that I never would have left Bloomberg's NYC for Montana. I haven't been "home" now for five years, but friends tell me the place is falling apart again under DeBlasio. Not as bad as when Reagan was president and cut off funding for the homeless and the mental hospitals, but not Topeka any more.

I think extraordinary situations can justify extraordinary measures. I think you had to have been there to understand just how bad it was and while I cannot condone how black young men are often treated by police, I can understand the entirely justifiable fear that motivated this policy.

I lived in NY for shorter periods during that time, and worked there (as a messenger boy in the city, so I traveled EVERYWHERE in the city) for five summers in the late 70's, and I traveled to NY extensively for work. I had a vastly different experience than you did. Yeah, you had to keep your wits about you, but I've felt the same way in any major city I've ever visited. I never once felt that the city would shred me. I never once felt unsafe in a different way than I've felt in London, in Boston, in DC, in Philadelphia, in Paris, in Hong Kong, in San Francisco, or anywhere else. In every one of those cities, I've had a moment of "be careful, this is not necessarily a spot you want to be in".

My personal anecdote: in the summer of 1983, I was living in the Mormon church building across from Lincoln Center. (There's a Mormon church in the bottom, and the Mormon church owns the entire apartment building, I believe.) One night, my roommate and I went to a party on the East side. At about 1 AM, we left, and decided to walk home. We were a little drunk, we were young, we were insanely stupid. Instead of cutting down to 59th Street, we took the straight path.

Right through Central Park.

In retrospect, it was a stupid decision. Central Park at night was dangerous in 1983. We should have walked around. We could have taken a cab. But we didn't.

Nothing happened. We made it home safely, without incident.

Nevertheless, I remember that every time I am in a questionable situation in any major city. I remember that a small degree of inconvenience is sometimes smarter than a stupid risk.

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Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
The relevant question is, "given a history of racism, how do we ensure that the program isn't racist?"

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You're the one attempting to defend the program, so I think that's on you.

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Originally posted by jon-nyc:

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Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
The relevant question is, "given a history of racism, how do we ensure that the program isn't racist?"

But how would you decide whether you were successful or not, if not by outcomes?

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Mike Bloomberg’s decision to dump hundreds of former campaign staffers from his payroll — after promising them paychecks through the election — has left a trail of ill will within the Democratic Party that’s now roiling a key part of its general election operation.

After accepting a much-needed $18 million donation from Bloomberg when he dropped out of the presidential campaign in March, Democratic National Committee officials have been pressuring battleground state parties to hire his former employees, according to senior party aides in three swing states. Those staffers found themselves jobless after the billionaire broke his campaign’s public promise to keep them employed through November whether he won the nomination or not.

But some state parties are chafing at the hiring requests. Senior state party officials told POLITICO they’re being tasked with cleaning up Bloomberg’s public relations mess rather than hiring the best people for the jobs.

“It’s ridiculous,” said one Democratic operative familiar with the dispute, who was granted anonymity to speak frankly about the situation. “There were dozens of candidates [with qualified employees] and the parties are being asked to prioritize the rich guy’s staff over everyone else’s.”
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