I just posted this over at PW's Piano forum, but I thought I'd post it here as well, since I don't know if many of you still read over there.

piqué (and others here), you might be interested to know that I've mostly ruled out a 5'3" Yamaha (unless i find one like Bernard's) but if I could find a slightly used Boston GP163 (5'4") I might actually get one, I *loved* the new one that I played.

Anyway, without further ado, here's my piano shopping update.

I don't think I'll be buying any of these instruments, and especially not any of the ones that were new. But they are each in their own way helping me get closer to figuring out what I want.

So far I have visited three dealers and one private seller. Here are the pianos I played and my impressions (such as they are).

Feurich grand (5'8" IIRC)
So I went to see the Feurich grand (the one that triggered the other thread). It was made in West Germany in the mid-1980s and had lived in someone's home until now. It was in very nice condition. I loved playing it, it had the most amazing sound quality, sort of dark and rich and mysterious. I started to play the first piece in my list of piano-testing repertoire, and at first I didn't really like the Feurich. And it felt odd, like trying to talk to someone you don't know. But I kept playing, and realized I felt like I didn't understand the piano and that's why I didn't like it. I finished one piece, went on to the next, and the next, and I realized the more I played the piano, the more I liked its sound and feel. Action wasn't stiff, seemed very responsive, and the voice of the piano was really unlike what I'm used to. I felt like it was the perfect piano for playing things in a minor key! And ultimately it was this that made me think I don't want this piano, like it's character was too strong. Except, I really want to go back and play it again, and I keep thinking about it...

Yamaha C3 (6'1")
At not quite 40 years old, this piano was a little older than I want, but I loved playing it. In comparison to the Feurich, sitting down to play at this piano felt like coming home. I loved how it sounded and felt. It was at a dealer with several other used grands at various sizes, including some in the G1 series (I can't remember the specific model, but one of the 5'3" pianos). Oh and a 5' kawai. So I played those smaller pianos, and then I played this piano. And I thought, ok, I don't want a 5'3" Yamaha. If you see what I mean! I don't think I'll get this particular piano, I'd like a slightly newer one. But playing it makes me feel like I will really like pianos at this size, and if I see another Yamaha C3 advertised I will definitely go and try to play it and see if I might want it.

Yamaha G1 (5'3")
I have so far played 3 different 5'3" Yamahas, each had a different specific model, so I know that means differences on the inside, but I don't think I'll be pursuing any of them so I didn't write down specifics. One was about 30 years old and the other two were somewhat newer. They were all very nice pianos, and if I could only fit a 5'3" in my room, I would happily get one of these.

Yamaha GCM1 (5'3")
This was actually a new piano. If I were in the market for a new instrument, I might consider it. I thought it sounded great, although it was a little stiff and I suspect that's just because it's new. But it was noticeably better than the used Yamaha G1s I played (which is good, I guess, since it was brand new!)

Pramberger (5'2")
This was also a new piano, the inside was all nickle-plated instead of brass (well, all the hardware was nickle). I didn't like it. I didn't like how it felt and I didn't like that nickle-look! :P

Kawai GL-10 (5')
I actually played two of these (in different places) one was used, the other new. I didn't like either of them, and I was really disappointed in the new one because I expected it to sound better. The action felt like a digital keyboard and the sound was plunky. I haven't played any larger Kawai grands yet, but I will still give them a chance even though these two were pretty lackluster.

Boston GP163 (5'4")
This was a new piano, and I thought it was fantastic. I loved how it sounded and how it felt. The bass was nice and the treble was clear and sweet, not plunky or plinky, and the action was really responsive. Now, maybe it was so nice because it's a new instrument, and obviously really well-prepped. Or maybe the thigns I liked about it are due to the design (this piano is said to have a wider tail than most pianos in this size class, right?)
Unfortunately, this dealer didn't have any Yamaha 5'3" pianos, because I would have loved to compare the two side by side, since they're so close in size and since I'm so partial to the Yamahas. But I will definitely keep Boston on my radar because this piano was great. I want to go back and play it again actually.

Seiler (5'6")
Another new piano. I loved this piano *except* I only got to play it for a nanosecond because the dealer wouldn't leave me alone and kept ranting about "brandism" (note to dealers: don't do this). And because the guy seemed like he was going to come unhinged, we decided to leave his shop right away, so I think the piano was an ED-168 but I'm not sure. And I didn't get to play any of his other instruments, although I could see that he had a nice selection of Seiler, Samick, Knabe, Kawai and at least one used Baldwin grand.
My husband and I discussed it and we're going to try to go back because his store isn't that far of a drive and one of few places where I can try out so many different pianos. But there's very little chance I would purchace from him, because I would be too nervous with someone who behaves so dramaticly.

Steinway (5'7"?)
This was over 100 years old (note that it was definitely under 6 foot and did have a full 88-key keyboard, so it was from the early 1900s I believe). It had recently had a lot of work done it (restringing and I'm not sure what else) and was in perfect tune. It sounded and felt amazing. There's something about old pianos like that, the wood, I don't know, but it had such a beautiful richness to it. After I played it for a while, I asked the dealer why the action felt so light and he explained that although the piano wasn't that big, the keys were the same size (length) as a 9-foot concert grand. Wow!

Of these pianos, the ones I want to go back and play again are: The Boston GP 163, the Yamaha C3, and the Feurich.

Next on my to do list is trying to find a Yamaha C2 to try, trying to see if I can find a gently used Boston (I don't think that's going to happen though, I don't see them used anywhere within my driving radius), and trying to find a few more Kawai grands (bigger than the GL-10). I'd like to try a few more makes/models because there are still so many brands I've never even touched. And I'd love to play a Mason Hamlin, even though I suspect I couldn't afford one if it was in the kind of condition I want. Oh, and I'd really like to play a Petrof grand to try, since my upright is a Petrof. There's one that's 5'8", I think it's at a dealer's that's a two-hour drive, so maybe I can do that soon.

Consider calling the shop with the bad salesman and making an appointment with a different salesperson?

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Consider calling the shop with the bad salesman and making an appointment with a different salesperson?

He's the owner!

I actually spoke to him on the phone the day before we went in, he was fine then. Maybe he was just having an off day...

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After I played it for a while, I asked the dealer why the action felt so light and he explained that although the piano wasn't that big, the keys were the same size (length) as a 9-foot concert grand. Wow!

Omg what a load of horse sh!t. I see the sleazy piano salesmen are still in business.
The action was light because it's a very old piano that probably needs a full regulation job.

It's fun to follow you on your journey. But I think you should try more of the older European pianos like the Feurich and the Seiler, and the Petrof. It sounds to me like your ear is accustomed to the Japanese sound--not surprising considering you lived there! But there is a lot to discover in the old German makes.

As for the deranged piano shop owner you'll have to be blunt and ask him to leave you alone with the pianos.

Be cautious about any piano as old as that Steinway. Could turn into a money pit if it wasnt a complete rebuild by a good rebuilder (they are not easy to find)

piqué thanks for all your comments!

Re the Steinway, well or any older instrument. There is no way I will purchase something so old, no matter what the instrument, the amount of work it's already had done etc. I do not want a money pit. If I could afford a new piano, I would get it, but I can't. ETA: but if I could, I still probably wouldn't buy a Steinway.

So I was really not listening to him critically when he was telling me about that Steinway, I just thought it was fun to play. I do think he's trying to sell it, but I am not interested.

I'm more interested in that Feurich, and the Seiler at the crazy guy's shop. (He's going to be "that crazy guy" now forever!)

I think you're right, I am totally accustomed to the Yamaha sound (and a nice Yamaha is a wonderful instrument, no doubt).

So I think that's why 1) I loved the Boston right away (very bright, clear and shiny, worked well with my Japanese piano music), but also 2) that's why I didn't like the Feurich *initially* because it was so unknown to me, character-wise.

And we will go back to the crazy shop, we have an event in that town in two weeks, so I'm going to try to leave early and go there beforehand. Then I can play the Seiler again.

Did I write that there's a 5'8" Petrof in my traveling radius? I wonder if it will any similarities character-wise to my Petrof upright. I can't figure out how old the grand is, but I think I'll call and ask. It's a two+ hour drive so it'll be a few weeks, but I bet that Petrof will sit in the dealer's shop for a while. As the Yamaha dealer I spoke to said, a lot of people around here don't know anything beyond Yamaha and Steinway, so those are the pianos that sell the fastest.

The only thing about a piano like the Feurich is I wonder how stable, consistent, reliable, it will be. My eye keeps going to the Yamahas because I know how reliable they are, and I feel like it would be easy to make a mistake buying something else.

I think a Yamaha would be a safe purchase. But again, I really responded to the Feurich and the Seiler, so we'll see what happens.

What fun to go along on this piano journey with you! I can't wait to hear how that Petrof plays - I've really liked a few of them around here.

There can really be a big difference between just a little over 5' and almost 6'. For me, it is about the transitions between areas of the scale as well as the "depth" of the bass (not volume) of the lower octaves with a bigger piano.

I'd say pay attention to what draws you in - might even challenge you a bit to be more expressive?

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I can't wait to hear how that Petrof plays - I've really liked a few of them around here.

I know, I remember you've mentioned that in the past, so it's one reason I'm keen to go play it. If I get more info (year/serial number etc) I'll be sure to post about it. I just wish the place were closer! The Petrof is at a dealer that looks to have a lot of used inventory, so it will be another really good place to visit.

Do you think the Petrof grands are pretty reliable? Do they hold their tuning? Are they any more or less susceptible to humidity than other makes?

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might even challenge you a bit to be more expressive?

This. It's hard because I play on an upright all the time, so in these visits to play the grands, one thing I'm trying to do is evaluate their ability to play p and pp -- well, except I feel my ability to play p or pp is really limited, so I feel like, how would I even know if it's a good piano for those kinds of dynamics??

It's a process though, I think I'll get better at assessing them the more I play. And hopefully, once I have a grand in my own home, I can start working on building up my technique.

Oh boy, piano shopping! I've only tried one Seiler (a friends, not for sale) and liked it a lot.

I agree with the other person (pique?) who said you'll just have to tell the crazy piano dude to leave you alone. And there is nothing at all wrong with liking Yamahas! They can be wonderful pianos.

Another option you might like (based on my experience) is Mason & Hamlin. I think they had similar sound/action to the Yamaha. I also love a good Baldwin, but there you're looking at older pianos because the new ones are very iffy. Alas. And by "new," I mean 20 years or younger. Once Gibson bought them, it seems their quality slipped (except maybe for their very high end, but not sure).

Re: PSOs v uprights--one of the areas I focussed on was the bass. I felt like if I were getting a grand, the bass should be significantly better than on an upright (easier to play, to do dynamics, better sound, etc.)

Happy shopping! We're only too willing to give you opinions.

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Originally posted by ShiroKuro:

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Consider calling the shop with the bad salesman and making an appointment with a different salesperson?

He's the owner!

I actually spoke to him on the phone the day before we went in, he was fine then. Maybe he was just having an off day...

Ha Wonder how long he will be the owner? Once had a pushy piano salesman-owner follow me all the way to my car.

Nina,

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you'll just have to tell the crazy piano dude to leave you alone

Yeah, I'll try. It'll be worth it to play that Seiler again!

I also do want to try a M&H, I've read so much about them on PW and one of my invisible friends from the ABF has one, and in her recordings the piano is always really awesome.

I agree re the way the bass sounds. The funny thing about that (well, probably not funny just naive) was that I was expecting a less than satisfactory bass, but I wasn't expecting the plinky plunky treble that I found on the two small Kawais I tried. One of those was a new instrument, and I almost wondered if the dealer had it sitting there poorly prepped so it would make the other instruments sound that much better!


CHAS:

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Once had a pushy piano salesman-owner follow me all the way to my car.

Doesn't KK have a Seiler? Where did she get it? An option. I remember liking it.

Why not tell us the owner's name? We know a lot of dealers and might be able to help...

There was one dealer locally that lost my trust and would not have ever given him my money.

I loved my buying experience. But I also traveled. It was worth it.

I also don't think that another 5-6 inches is much to add on, in your room

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Why not tell us the owner's name?

Do you mean the one I complained about? I have a funny perspective on that. I feel like piano stores are closing all the time and I don't want to give him bad publicity if he's really a good guy (who was having a bad day). I'll be going in there at least one more time, and will give him another chance (and also be more straightforward and maybe even say something like "I'm kind of shy about my playing" or something to get him to go away without my having to be super blunt and unpleasant.) Having said that, if you or any WTF members want to know who he is, PM me!

Also, and this is mainly for PW, but I'm trying not to post too many specifics because I don't want a piano dealer to be able to connect me, the person that goes into their shop with my posts online. Plus, I'm irrationally paranoid (ask Quirt! ) and always try to keep my specific location out of public forum posts.

So, how far did you travel LL? I am not really willing or able to go anywhere that I can't drive to. First of all, at this stage anyway, I can't imagine picking a piano without making at least two separate trips to play it, so I need to be able to drive there. But still, even limiting it to 2-3 hours one-way, that includes a fair number of options (just lots of day trips). There are still 5 dealers I'll be visiting in NC and SC, plus the 3 I've been to so far. And if I can get myself to get over my hatred of Atlanta traffic, there are at least two really well-reputed dealers in Atlanta that I could go to as well. And of course private sellers, maybe, and also a service like Piano Mart.

Regarding the size, I've pretty much decided I want to go up to 6ish feet but not much over it. Although, I need to play with the floor template some more, who knows!