well-temperedforum.groupee.net    The Well-Tempered Forum  Hop To Forum Categories  Off Key    Doing The Two-Space Tango
Page 1 2 

Moderators: QuirtEvans, pianojuggler, wtg
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Doing The Two-Space Tango
 Login/Join
 
Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big?

Minor Deity
Picture of Cindysphinx
posted
Like many of you, I learned to type on manual typewriters. The custom was to leave two spaces between sentences.

The world has changed, and younger people advocate using one space between sentences. I have resisted this for years, but the time has come for me to change with the times. I am now trying to learn not to put that extra space after the period.

Oh lordy, this is a hard habit to break! No matter how hard I try, I hit that bloody space bar twice. My work is littered with two spaces, and I have to fix it. I have even taken to forcing myself to retype the last word of the sentence and period, just to force myself to do it differently and break the muscle memory.

I have about 45 years of typing with two spaces. I hope it doesn't take another 45 years to learn to type with one space.
 
Posts: 19833 | Location: A cluttered house in Metro D.C. | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Has Achieved Nirvana
Picture of wtg
posted Hide Post
Not sure what software you're using, but I think some can help with some automation.

The question asked here relates to the software automatically putting two spaces after a sentence, but I wonder if this somehow helps you:

quote:
To change the setting, open any Word document and click File > Options.

Next, select Proofing > Settings.

Scroll down to the “Punctuation Conventions” section, change the “Spaces Between Sentences” to “One Space,” and then click the “OK” button.


https://answers.microsoft.com/...44-8408-840a8df43037

And you could always just keep typing two spaces, and do a search at the very end for two spaces and replace all occurrences with one space.

Like you, I'm a long time two-spacer and I think it would be very hard to change...


--------------------------------
When the world wearies and society ceases to satisfy, there is always the garden - Minnie Aumônier

 
Posts: 38217 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Beatification Candidate
Picture of rontuner
posted Hide Post
I even do this while texting...


--------------------------------
Visit me on the Web!
www.ronkoval.com

 
Posts: 7603 | Location: chicagoland | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Has Achieved Nirvana
Picture of Steve Miller
posted Hide Post
I don’t see any reason to change, myself.

I also still put 5 spaces between the state and the zip code - just like my typing teacher taught me.


--------------------------------
Life is short. Play with your dog.

 
Posts: 35084 | Location: Hooterville, OH | Registered: 23 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Doug
posted Hide Post
 
Posts: 10346 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Mikhailoh
posted Hide Post
The very fact that we all took typing tells it all.


--------------------------------
"A mob is a place where people go to get away from their conscience" Atticus Finch

 
Posts: 13649 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
(self-titled) semi-posting lurker
Minor Deity
Picture of ShiroKuro
posted Hide Post
I don't know how I did it, but I managed to break myself of this habit during grad school. Maybe the fact that I was about 15 years older than all of my classmates had something to do with it. Roll Eyes

Now, when I'm editing something (for myself, or giving feedback to a colleague etc.) a double space jumps out at me like crazy, which makes it very easy to spot and correct them.

quote:
I don’t see any reason to change, myself.


Unfortunately, people have decided that the double space at the end of sentences makes the writer look out of touch/dated.

Which, depending on what one is doing professionally, could be an issue. -_-


--------------------------------
My piano recordings at Box.Net: https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

 
Posts: 18860 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Mary Anna
posted Hide Post
I made the switch years ago when I found out that the first thing the editorial assistant did upon receiving my manuscripts was to use search-and-replace on the double spaces. I didn't want to be that person who stubbornly causes other people extra work and I didn't want to look old, so I bit the bullet.

Do I buy their argument that single spaces look better? I do not. I think that one function of punctuation is to visually signal the ebb and flow of the text. It is also a signal to someone reading out loud that shows them where to breathe. However, I'm not willing to look unprofessional and stodgy to defend something that is, after all, only a convention.


--------------------------------
Mary Anna Evans
http://www.maryannaevans.com
MaryAnna@ermosworld.com

 
Posts: 15565 | Location: Florida | Registered: 22 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Does This Avatar Make My Butt Look Big?

Minor Deity
Picture of Cindysphinx
posted Hide Post
It makes sense that the younger generation wouldn’t see value in two spaces. After all, none of them sees value in spelling, grammar, or punctuation.
 
Posts: 19833 | Location: A cluttered house in Metro D.C. | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Foregoing Practicing to Post
Minor Deity
Picture of RealPlayer
posted Hide Post
When we typed on typewriters, and even early word processors, fonts were monospace — all letters and characters were the same width. So a single space after a period just made sentences look run-together.


--------------------------------
“It's hard to win an argument with a smart person. It's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person." -- Bill Murray

 
Posts: 13890 | Location: The outer burrows | Registered: 27 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
czarina
Has Achieved Nirvana
Picture of piqué
posted Hide Post
As I've said before, one space or two is a typographical decision, not a grammar or punctuation decision. Typography has fashions. Back when computer typography first emerged, it became cool to jam all the letters together, because for the first time, you could.

As a museum poster designer, I always preferred the look of monotype--that was when you set type one letter at a time, by hand, and the blocks of wood or lead that had the letters carved in them meant that the letters could only get so close. I love all that negative space in between the letters. So much more beautiful. I hate crowded type; it's ugly.

Is it "correct"? No. One choice is no more correct than the other. It's a style choice.

Two spaces after a period makes the type easier to read. Making the type easier to read is the job of a typographer who has a sense of refinement.

Now that we don't even use computer typesetting, but the use of computers makes saving the extra space something anyone can do.... well, the world is going to hell, what else can I say?

The origins of the single space was the wire services, who were trying to get more type on fewer pages. It is a practical matter for them, and a design abomination for everyone else.

Not only do I put two space after a period, when I set the style and formatting of a manuscript, I also expand the spaces between individual letters. It is not only more beautiful, it is more readable.


--------------------------------
fear is the thief of dreams

 
Posts: 21539 | Registered: 18 May 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
(self-titled) semi-posting lurker
Minor Deity
Picture of ShiroKuro
posted Hide Post
quote:
the world is going to hell


ROTFLMAO

Seriously though, readability is so tricky.

I really, really hate documents, student papers, cover letters etc. that are justified on both the left and the right side of the page. And I feel like it's harder to read that way. But at the same time, maybe that's just my imagination, because I know some books are set up like that.

And Japanese text is set like that because there are no spaces (yes, no spaces at all) and you just go all the way to the end of the line and continue on the next line, regardless of whether the characters at the end of line 1 and beginning of line 2 are two characters in the same word. No hyphens either.

I don't find Japanese difficult to read despite that.

But I don't like reading blocks of text that are in all-caps because I find that hard to read.

And I find text that's too spaced out hard to read.

Are all of these things just what we're used to? I mean there are some things that are objectively hard to read, but others maybe are just habit??


--------------------------------
My piano recordings at Box.Net: https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

 
Posts: 18860 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
(self-titled) semi-posting lurker
Minor Deity
Picture of ShiroKuro
posted Hide Post
Here's what Japanese text looks like (assuming it displays correctly on your screens). I will arbitrarily do hard returns to mimic specific margins:

これは日本語の例文です。終止符やコンマ
なら、スペースが空きますが、それ以外は
スペースを一切使いません。例え一行目か
ら二行目に続く単語でもそのまま単語の真
ん中に改行します。

Basically th effect is justified on both sides.

Here is is without hard returns, so depending on your device it might be laid out differently...

これは日本語の例文です。終止符やコンマなら、スペースが空きますが、それ以外はスペースを一切使いません。例え一行目から二行目に続く単語でもそのまま単語の真ん中に改行します。


Anyway, with the exception of periods and commas, no spaces!


--------------------------------
My piano recordings at Box.Net: https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

 
Posts: 18860 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
knitterati
Beatification Candidate
Picture of AdagioM
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
Here's what Japanese text looks like (assuming it displays correctly on your screens). I will arbitrarily do hard returns to mimic specific margins:

これは日本語の例文です。終止符やコンマ
なら、スペースが空きますが、それ以外は
スペースを一切使いません。例え一行目か
ら二行目に続く単語でもそのまま単語の真
ん中に改行します。

Basically th effect is justified on both sides.

Here is is without hard returns, so depending on your device it might be laid out differently...

これは日本語の例文です。終止符やコンマなら、スペースが空きますが、それ以外はスペースを一切使いません。例え一行目から二行目に続く単語でもそのまま単語の真ん中に改行します。


Anyway, with the exception of periods and commas, no spaces!


Interesting! And funny for me, because I started looking at it from right to left, and then realized that it must go left to right because the periods are at the ends of the sentences.

I went to Chinese Language School on Saturdays as a child. Our texts read top to bottom, right to left.


--------------------------------
http://pdxknitterati.com

 
Posts: 9855 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 06 June 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
(self-titled) semi-posting lurker
Minor Deity
Picture of ShiroKuro
posted Hide Post
Japanese is funny because of all the different ways it can be written. It originally was only read top to bottom from the upper right. Then horizontal also became an option, but that was right to left. Then, presumably due to influence from the west, horizontal writing started to be written left to right, while vertical remained with its start in the upper right.

At some point, horizontal writing that was written right to left basically fell out of favor, maybe this coincided with printing press technological advancements. So the main options were: vertical/top to bottom starting in the upper right, or horizontal reading left to right.

Novels/fiction tends to be printed vertically, while essays, textbooks, manuals, rules, regulations etc. tend to be printed horizontally. Newspapers use a mix of vertical and horizontal text, sometimes in the same article!

Internet text is usually horizontal but not always. And when you're writing in something like MS Word, the default is horizontal, but it's very easy to change it vertical.

BUT! the option to write horizontally and read (or write) right to left remained and in contemporary Japan this kind of writing is primarily seen in 1) fancy scrolls or artwork, or 2) cars and ships on the passenger (or starboard) side. Why? Because if a vehicle is coming at you and you're on that side, you would read the characters right to left as the vehicle goes by.

Sorry, that's probably more than you wanted to know!!


--------------------------------
My piano recordings at Box.Net: https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

 
Posts: 18860 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

    well-temperedforum.groupee.net    The Well-Tempered Forum  Hop To Forum Categories  Off Key    Doing The Two-Space Tango