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Piano Advice: exercises for polyrhythms??
07 July 2020, 01:37 PM
ShiroKuroPiano Advice: exercises for polyrhythms??
So, I want to learn how to play Liszt's Consolation No. 3. Just going from the score, should be doable for me. But it looks like it has 2 against 3 or other polyrhythms (the LH is most triplets throughout, while the RH has quarter notes and maybe 16th notes).
In the past, when I play a piece with 2 against 3, I just muscle through it somehow, and when I get it up to speed it seems to come out alright.
But, oddly, this Consolation is slow enough that I feel like that will make it harder.
So, can anyone recommend something to practice for this kind of piece?
Any other words of advice re Liszt?
TIA!
07 July 2020, 01:58 PM
jon-nycPractice one hand at a time but interleaved for one full beat each. Like 1-2 1-2-3 1-2 1-2-3.
After a few minutes put them together in the same beat but again just for one beat. Then mix it all up LH-RH-HT.
If this isn’t clear I can do a short video clip.
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If you think looting is bad wait until I tell you about civil forfeiture.
07 July 2020, 01:59 PM
ShiroKuroquote:
If this isn’t clear I can do a short video clip.
that would be very much appreciated! Esp. because I don't get what you mean in your first sentence.
07 July 2020, 02:09 PM
NinaFor 2-3 or 3-2 polyrhythms, I had a teacher suggest I use the words "not difficult" while trying to play it--one syllable per beat, going back and forth from the notes in one hand to the notes in the other.
It worked for me, and I have no idea why it did.
07 July 2020, 02:11 PM
jodiI think one of the things that helped me 2’s against threes early on was to break it down by counting to 6. So your twos go on 1 and 4 and your triplets of on 1, 3, and 5. You can start by just tapping them out with your hands On table. Really slowly. ( does that make sense? )
so left hand goes
ONE - two - three -
FOUR - five - six.
Right hand goes
ONE - two -
THREE - four -
FIVE - six
Once you get it (play them together) you can speed it up, and then pretty so you will be able to do it without counting.
(“Not difficult” is that same rhythm.)
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Jodi
07 July 2020, 02:24 PM
ShiroKuroNina, I hadn't heard of that, I'll try it.
Jodi, in this case, the triplets are in the LH and the RH plays ... well it depends on the measure, but 16th notes seem common. So, could I just flip what you wrote:
quote:
Originally posted by jodi:
so right hand goes ONE - two - three - FOUR - five - six.
left hand goes ONE - two - THREE - four - FIVE - six
Is that right?
07 July 2020, 02:31 PM
ShiroKuroAlso, just to make sure I'm counting this right:
In measure three, those RH and LH notes are played at the same time, b/c they're both on the 4th beat.
In measure 6, if there wasn't a tie, the RH and LH would play the Db and Ab together, but there's a tie so the RH doesn't re-play that Db. But then each of the remaining 16th notes fit around the LH triplet notes (as I've drawn those red lines in), right?
07 July 2020, 02:41 PM
jon-nycquote:
Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
quote:
If this isn’t clear I can do a short video clip.
that would be very much appreciated! Esp. because I don't get what you mean in your first sentence.
done on FB!
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If you think looting is bad wait until I tell you about civil forfeiture.
07 July 2020, 03:02 PM
ShiroKuroquote:
done on FB!
Thank you!
07 July 2020, 03:48 PM
jodiquote:
Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
Nina, I hadn't heard of that, I'll try it.
Jodi, in this case, the triplets are in the LH and the RH plays ... well it depends on the measure, but 16th notes seem common. So, could I just flip what you wrote:
quote:
Originally posted by jodi:
so right hand goes ONE - two - three - FOUR - five - six.
left hand goes ONE - two - THREE - four - FIVE - six
Is that right?
Yes, sorry - just flip it. But that’s 2’s again threes, but you’ve also got 3s against 4’s, (and in the past, I’ve used a 12 count for that - but it’s a little harder)
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Jodi
07 July 2020, 04:06 PM
ShiroKuroUhg, right.
I don't think I've ever played this kind of rhythm (where the 3s, the triplets, are in the LH)
I think I have to turn my brain inside out....
07 July 2020, 04:18 PM
jodiPractice the 2’s agains threes - you’ll get it. I had never heard the saying Nina wrote - but it works - so if that helps, use that. I’ve never played this piece, but I have the music and it looks like you can kind of fudge the 4’a against 3s in the beginning at least (since the first note is held) One way to work on it is to listen to a recording of the measure and get it in your head that way. I still have to break 3’s against 4’s down Sometimes and they Still make my head hurt.
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Jodi
07 July 2020, 05:43 PM
ShiroKuroI'll try that!
BTW I got a nice version of the score on imslp, I can share it if you're interested.
07 July 2020, 07:13 PM
jodiWhat is imslp?
And thanks to you, I practiced piano for almost an hour today. First time in a long while I’ve gone that long. Mostly Chopin, and some Mendelssohn. And a Liszt transcription of a Schumann piece that is very close to being impossible, but I just play the parts I can, because it’s so pretty.
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Jodi
07 July 2020, 07:44 PM
ShiroKuroYay, glad to hear you played piano bc of me!!
IMSLP is The International Music Score Library Project
https://imslp.org/wiki/Main_PageYou can get free sheet music (I only use it for composers that are dead :P )
I find the site a little bit awkward to use and you have to kind of poke around to find good quality PDFs, esp. if you're wanting to print something out. I also sometimes use it to decide if I want to buy something. Oh and I think there are recordings, but I never spend that much time looking for them, if I want to hear a recording, I find it on YouTube.
But for anyone playing classical music it's a great resource.