As we have been discussing ad nauseum here, real estate has lost its mind. And as I have already bored you with to tears, we keep losing out in our bids to return to Missoula. I know prices are crazy all over, but Missoula is even crazier than most right now. I know, because I've started looking in other parts of the country, including places I'd always just assumed were far more expensive than Missoula. Like western Washington and California, New England and New Mexico, and places within an hour or two of the nation's largest metro areas.


They no longer are.


Maybe a year ago we could have bought what we want in or near Missoula--a 2,000 square foot house in decent condition with good bones, on small acreage, close to public lands and trails, that allows a horse or two--but increasingly it seems that ship has sailed. If we shop at right about our price point, we don't get the house because we can't bid up high enough. If we shop at $100k lower, there is nothing we want to live in.

I'm trying to look on the bright side--when I sold my Missoula house I pocketed a huge chunk of cash, I avoided spending tens of thousands on a new sewer line, I unloaded a rental house that was becoming an increasing liability and riskier to rent out by the day. But if I'd known I may never be able to live in Missoula again if I sold that house, I would definitely not have sold it. Ah well. That ship has sailed too.

So now we are cut loose from that location, and as Mr. Pique is retiring next spring, we can live wherever we want, so long as we can afford it.

Our families and friends are scattered in every part of the country. I have a strong concentration of friends in the NY metro area and in New England. Mr Pique has deep personal connections both in the Pacific Northwest and the mid-Atlantic region. We have friends and family in many other places as well, but either we don't like the climate or we can't afford the cost of living.

I think climate is driving some of this for us now. Montana no longer has lovely summers. They have become brutally hot and dry, and filled with smoke. Hay has gone up to astronomical prices because of the drought, so it is no longer cheap to own a horse here. The wilderness solitude I lived for here has been destroyed--everyone is out there now, and forest fires have made my favorite refuges dangerous to visit. Plus the political winds have shifted dramatically--this was once a moderate-to-progressive place, where people could discuss their differing points of view civilly around the kitchen table, without rancor, and remain close friends. We elected democrats as often as Republicans, and our state constitution is one of the most forward thinking in the nation. How many state constitutions guarantee its citizens a clean and healthful environment?

But all that is changing. I am feeling more and more that I want to be in a community of people who are more like us. I am increasingly less tolerant of people who are unsophisticated and uneducated and with whom it is impossible to have a thoughtful conversation. It's not that they aren't very nice folks in most cases--they are. They'd give their right arm for you if you were in need--a great many of them would.
It's just that I find our differences make me feel lonelier than they used to.. Maybe that's just part of getting older. I have less patience for what I consider to be sheer stupidity: how they vote, their conspiracy theories, their belief in fake news, their refusal to get vaccinated or wear a mask. I am getting desperate for a more enlightened society.

Maybe we all are..

So I started doing Zillow searches for the entire United States. Any house with 2-4 bedrooms, 2+bathrooms, over 1750 square feet, under $650k, with at least 2 acres, that allows horses and has a barn. Bonus if there is also a cabin or guest cottage on the property. Anywhere in the U.S.

I was astonished to find very beautiful homes in Virginia, Pennsylvania, and the Berkshires that have low taxes and and are very affordable. Some of these are dream properties, with riding trails, creeks and ponds, and the federal/colonial style architecture that I grew up with and that to me feels like home. We also found a few places in western Washington, Maryland, Vermont, and upstate NY, but the taxes were considerably higher.

We want to be away from wildfires, away from hurricanes and drought, away from conservative politics, close to educated, thoughtful, creative, and community minded people, near enough to a big city or cultural events to occasionally go to a gallery opening, see experimental theater, and attend chamber music concerts. With gorgeous homes we can afford. And hay that sells for $200/ton or less. And a nice community of horse crazy women

There was more to my post, but it disappeared.

In brief (now)

Why do you think rural Virginia and the Berkshires real estate are so cheap now, comparatively?

If you live--or lived--in or near any of the areas I mentioned, what are the pros and cons?

Any part of the country coming to mind to you as I describe what I'm looking for?

Here are a few houses that turned up that I really liked:

https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare


https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare


https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare


https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare

https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare

https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare


https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare

https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare

https://www.zillow.com/homedet...tm_source=emailshare

Upstate NY is absolutely beautiful, and the higher taxes benefit the residents of the state, so there's that....

What about Western PA? I don't know about politics there, but there are lots of pretty areas....

Western North Carolina and western South Carolina (the so-called SC upstate region) get heavy rains when hurricanes are in the neighborhood, but in terms of natural disasters, it seems pretty tolerable.

ETA: Sorry, you don't want to come to either NC or SC, politically. Take my word for it.

What about a city that's progressive, even if the rest of the state isn't?

Madison WI -- cold but beautiful winters, glorious summers, beautiful lakes....

quote:

Madison WI -- cold but beautiful winters, glorious summers, beautiful lakes..

The upper Midwest is out. Much too cold. I lived in Michigan for 8 years. I would choose Ann Arbor over Madison if I were willing to live in that part of the country again. I have family there.

In that case, cross off upstate NY as well... and maybe western PA too....

BTW, I think it's incredibly smart to take climate (and climate change) into consideration if you're able to. It's only going to get worse.

Also, don't buy a house with a pool unless it's somewhere in the south (or southeast, southwest), IOW, some place without a real winter....

It is possible to get a place on 1-2 acres near Santa Fe for $500K or less. I'm less certain about horses on the property, only because I can't figure out how to put that into the search.

It's beautiful around there, though the summers can get warm to hot. You're up in altitude so that helps. If you want to be in town, it's probably too expensive and unlikely to allow horses on the property.

Maybe southern Utah (near Moab)? I would have recommended Bend, OR but the prices there have gone crazy. But if you're willing to be out of town a bit there may be options. Wildfires would be a concern.

Are the Berkshires that much warmer than Upstate NY or the upper midwest in the winter?

Thanks, Nina
I don't want to live in an arid climate any more. I miss the green.

ETA you can put horses in the search by added them as a keyword.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
Are the Berkshires that much warmer than Upstate NY or the upper midwest in the winter?

The southern Berkshires border CT. They get a LOT of snow, but are not nearly as severe a climate as WI, MI, MN, or far upstate NY. The biggest advantages there for me are--in the neighborhood of some of the best friends I've ever had, wonderful world class cultural events in the summer, reasonable proximity to NYC, lots of great xc skiing in winter, ocean isn't too far away. Mountain hiking. Negatives--humid and buggy in the summer, but no worse than anywhere else back East.

quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
Also, don't buy a house with a pool unless it's somewhere in the south (or southeast, southwest), IOW, some place without a real winter....

Good advice. I prefer swimming in freshwater lakes, anyway.

I don’t know what home prices are, but the Hudson Valley and environs are seeing a big boost in cultural prominence, if that interests you. A lot of NYC people now have migrated there or have second homes. I wouldn’t like to have to drive everywhere myself, but that’s the USA norm.

New Jersey has some horse country, I hear.

Mass MoCa is near or in the Berkshires too.

quote:

Originally posted by RealPlayer:
I don’t know what home prices are, but the Hudson Valley and environs are seeing a big boost in cultural prominence, if that interests you. A lot of NYC people now have migrated there or have second homes. I wouldn’t like to have to drive everywhere myself, but that’s the USA norm.

New Jersey has some horse country, I hear.

Mass MoCa is near or in the Berkshires too.

Property taxes are astronomical in NY state and NJ. Went to high school in NJ horse country. I would shoot myself before I would ever live there again. I have friends living in the Husdson Valley I'd love to see more of . The Berkshires are just across the state line.

What is Mass MoCa???