Strikes me as philosophically defective, except in the rare case where the person has actual prior knowledge.


Really it strikes me as misdirected objection to the sex itself, maybe even a form of neo-Puritanism.


As a thought experiment imagine Nina goes to her favorite Vietnamese manicure place and gets a pedi from a girl who turns out to have been trafficked. Literally nobody would have the intuition to charge her with human trafficking.

quote:

Originally posted by jon-nyc:
Strikes me as philosophically defective, except in the rare case where the person has actual prior knowledge.


Really it strikes me as misdirected objection to the sex itself, maybe even a form of neo-Puritanism.


As a thought experiment imagine Nina goes to her favorite Vietnamese manicure place and gets a pedi from a girl who turns out to have been trafficked. Literally nobody would have the intuition to charge her with human trafficking.

Are there a lot of people performing manicures against their will? I don't imagine so. Have you ever heard of any?

in contrast, there are clearly people involved in the sex industry against their will.

If you are obtaining a sexual service at a massage parlor from someone who doesn't speak English, wouldn't you at least wonder whether that person might be there against their will? It wouldn't cross your mind?

I doubt that it crosses Nina's mind that the woman doing her nails is being forced to do so against her will. She might wonder whether the person is in the country illegally, but I really doubt that she even gives a passing thought to whether the woman is a trafficking victim.

Sure, trafficking victims working in nail salons is a thing. Often they do mani/pedis by day and ‘massages’ in the evening. Google it.

But it wouldn’t have to be true to make my point. As a hypothetical it would be sufficient.

quote:

Originally posted by jon-nyc:
Sure, trafficking victims working in nail salons is a thing. Often they do mani/pedis by day and ‘massages’ in the evening. Google it.

But it wouldn’t have to be true to make my point. As a hypothetical it would be sufficient.

It's also a hypothetical that a trafficking victim could work in investment banking.

Anything can be a hypothetical, no matter how absurd.

But, whaddaya know, there IS some suggestion that there is trafficking in nail salons. I'd never have imagined it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-42729302

You’ve never been to one in a major city. They are usually staffed exclusively with immigrants and often charge prices incompatible with proper wages.

Anyway, to my point, nobody would have the intuition ‘let’s jail Nina for human trafficking’. They just wouldn’t. They’d go after the salon.

Let’s make it easier.

Nina is on vacation in South Florida. She goes into a day spa and treats herself to a massage. It of course doesn’t occur to her to ask the 19 year old southeast Asian immigrant for a happy ending, and it does not occur to the girl to offer. Nina gets her massage, pays her $50 and leaves.

Later it turns out the girl was trafficked. Maybe she serviced Robert Kraft the next day on the same table.

Still, it would be nobody’s intuition to charge Nina with human trafficking.

Dude didn’t go in there for a pedicure.

Just sayin’.

I’m not sure if you’re missing my point or making it.

quote:

After Kraft left the spa, he entered the passenger side of the Bentley. Shortly after the Bentley left the parking lot of the strip mall, a police officer pulled over the car for a traffic stop. Obviously, since Kraft allegedly returned to the spa the next day, neither he nor his driver realized that the purpose of the stop was to obtain a copy of his Massachusetts driver’s license and confirm his identity.

I'm curious - what's the justification for the traffic stop?

How did I get dragged into this?

Yes, there are manicurists who are being taken advantage of. I'm not sure it rises to the same level as sex trafficking, though. But nail techs can be paid well below living wage, and work ungodly hours. There may be other more nefarious practices, but I'm unaware of them.

The backstory of the Vietnamese takeover of nail salons is actually a good story

quote:

Originally posted by well-tempered gardener:

quote:

After Kraft left the spa, he entered the passenger side of the Bentley. Shortly after the Bentley left the parking lot of the strip mall, a police officer pulled over the car for a traffic stop. Obviously, since Kraft allegedly returned to the spa the next day, neither he nor his driver realized that the purpose of the stop was to obtain a copy of his Massachusetts driver’s license and confirm his identity.

I'm curious - what's the justification for the traffic stop?

I'm guessing it was just an excuse to see the driver's license.

It sounds like (and I'd expect that) he has a driver. I'm wondering what the justification was to see the passenger's identification.

The purpose of bringing up the nail salon, or in my later example the straight body massage, was simply to demonstrate that the intuition to charge the *customer* for the crime of the salon owner disappears without the element of sex.


Sorry to put you in the story, you were top of mind because your earlier consent comment which I was replying to when the discussion morphed into whether or not Kraft was guilty of human trafficking.

Interesting point about the driver.

So a cop can stop you just for the hell of it, even if you haven't done anything wrong related to driving the car? For some reason I thought there needed to be a "real" reason, like a burned out brake light or traffic violation.

Christ I need an editor.