quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
It's interesting because I can play the scales and cadences for most of the sharped keys without looking, but I still actually read (or look at) the score for the flat keys and cadences.

That's interesting, SK. Maybe thinking of the progression of flat keys going down (C down to F down to Bb down to Eb down to Ab down to Db ...) would help? For sharps it's opposite, C up to G up to D up to A up to E up to ...

Every time you go down a 5th from C (or a flat key) (look at the keyboard and see it) you add a flat. Every time you go up a 5th (from a flat key) you lose a flat (until you get to C and then you start adding sharps).

quote:

Originally posted by ShiroKuro:
I know there are lots of piano teachers now who say it's not good to use these kinds of hints...

Are you familiar with the "cheats" (of course they are not cheats) for reading the key signatures? Flats: When looking at the key signature look at the next to last flat, that's the key--unless it's written in minor so check the last note of the piece (not always surefire, but usually is), if it's the same note, most likely major. Sharps: When looking at the key signature look at the last sharp and raise it a half a step, that's the key--unless minor, same as above.

Also, when dealing with sharps: With each new key in the circle (going up) the next sharp to be added is always the leading tone of the new key. From C (no sharps): +F# (to G), +C# (to D), etc. always preserving the sharps from keys that came before.

When dealing with flats: With each new key in the circle (going down) the next flat to be added is always a whole step below the current key. In C: (no flats) to F: +Bb (whole step down from C). From F to Bb: +Eb (whole step from F). From Eb to Ab: +Db (whole step from Eb). From Ab to Db: +Gb (whole step from Ab), etc.

So in this light, it makes sense why the sharps may come easier: Just add a new leading tone and voila!

Bernard, I am familiar with those cheats -- although I rarely do anything with them. In other words, when I look at a score for the first time, I look at the number of sharps or flats in the key signature, but being able to say the name of the key that the music is in doesn't seem to have any specific benefit to me. I'm more interested in whether it's in a major or minor key, and I always sort of assume I have to play the music in order to figure that out.

Back to the question of why sharps seem easier to me, I think it's what you wrote in your second post (the one immediately above this one)... You go up to get the sharps (obviously) but you also go up to get to the next key, and when you play scales, the first thing you do is go up the keyboard. I think that's all very visually easy and logically straightforward to me.

Maybe when practicing keys with flats, I should start at the top of the scale and play down, because then the key is moving in the direction that you're playing.

Am I the only one who thinks about it like this??

I don't mind any particular key signature, though the less common ones (like F# major in Ravel or Eb minor in Rachmaninoff) always throw me for a loop at first. Playing an E# or Cb seems, I don't know, wrong.


When it comes to scales the one that gives me the most trouble, oddly, is Ab major. Playing it up or down is fine, but I often play scales with one hand ascending while the other descends, and when I do that I always trip up on AbM.

quote:

I often play scales with one hand ascending while the other descends

Ah! that reminds me, I need to put that back into my practice. I think it's been several years since I flubbed my way through practiced scales that way. Maybe I should switch up my scales routine so it's:
1) play all the scales with flats (and yes, all of them, not just up to 5 flats)
2) Play the Cmaj and up through the sharped scales (as far as I can get anyway) in this V pattern.

This thread has been a lot of fun! We should talk about piano more often!

I thought of this thread recently. I'm learning a couple of Scriabin pieces that combine unusual key signatures with unusual time signatures.

Not the flats so much as the time signature, yikes!!

I first learned to read music in Jr. High School playing the Sousaphone. All bass clef, and for whatever reason involving mostly keys utilizing flats. Very few keys involving sharps. Dunno why.

High school the same. Honor band three years, marching band, all district. All Sousaphone all the time. The stuff we played were in keys involving flats. Maybe a sharp or two - very exotic. I understood the concept but never used it.

FF 30 years. Trying to learn piano. Many, many keys using sharps. I finally gave up
And sold the piano to Bongwater Q. Liberalstein.

I think he still has it, and I hope he plays it daily in keys that use a lot of sharps.