In essence, the plan takes away the cost of maximizing debt instead of accepting a merit scholarship offer. Imagine, you were accepted to Cal Berkeley or Michigan or Virginia, but went someplace else because you were offered a full ride there. I bet you'd love this plan, huh?

Warren gets more annoying by the day. Her broad brush solutions to real problems suffer from a lack of detail and nuance. Used to like her.

Jf

We should organize against her campaign. Maybe I will write that note asking her to drop out.

Looks Like the WaPo Editorial Board ...

... has been reading all of my OLD op-eds.

I actually HAVE started another piece on the subject together with a friend at Davidson. The campaign is long, and I want to take a hammer to regressive progressive proposals of this sort.

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Looks Like the WaPo Editorial Board ...

... has been reading all of my OLD op-eds.

I actually HAVE started another piece on the subject together with a friend at Davidson. The campaign is long, and I want to take a hammer to regressive progressive proposals of this sort.

If this plan were to through, how do you think it would affect the cost of a college education?

Cost or price ...

The problem is that the issue is complex and politicians want bumper stickers.

I have to read the "details" of her proposal, which are still a bit fuzzy (or so I'm told). But zeroing out list-price tuition at public universities would certainly lower the bill for some people.

We'd all love "free stuff" of course, but it's an open question if putting $8,000 a year in the pocket of a family making 4X the poverty level (roughly 110K now) is a good use of scarce social resources. As Milton Friedman, that progressive paragon, once said, "why should families in Watts pay taxes so families in Beverly Hills can send their children to UCLA."

In most states (the ones that offer some of their own need-based aid on top of Pell) tuition is already zero for families making 30-40K or less. It's not clear that these families will benefit from "free college," when the major deterrence to attendance is room & board, transportation, books, and foregone wages. If making list price zero causes these families to lose other benefits, like internal school discounts, and other state aid that they can use to cover non-tuition costs, then "free tuition" can make underprivileged students worse off.

These kids, when they do go to college, also tend to borrow less. The 50K debt forgiveness is another huge transfer from the tax base to people who have acquired very valuable market credentials. As Jon's twitter quote suggests, this is not necessarily going to fill the undereducated "working class" with warm fuzzies.

Some of the comments I've been hearing--

I didn't go to college, because I couldn't afford it. I did the right thing and didn't get myself in significant debt. Now you're saying that the people who did go to college, take on huge debts, are going to get those debts wiped away AND have a college degree? That's not fair.

I paid down my college debt, but I have a larger mortgage because of that debt. You should give me that college debt back, so I can pay down on my mortgage. It's only fair.

I chose a public school over a the fancy private that I was accepted to, because I couldn't afford to go there. Now I find out I should have gone to the fancy school, on all sorts of loans, because my debt would be wiped clean? Not fair.

You get the point.

And to P*D's point (and well-known to families paying for kids in college), tuition is in many cases the smallest bill you'll have. Miscellaneous fees can easily be over 50% of your tuition/fees bill. Housing costs (with super-expensive, mandatory meal plans) can equal or exceed tuition, depending on your major. Free tuition isn't going to magically make college affordable for the truly needy.

quote:

You get the point.

And those are all good points about fairness.

All this "forgiveness" stuff essentially rewards adverse selection. That's a horrible way to make policy.

The elephant in the room is the cost of college has risen significantly while wages have stagnated--or worse.

The real underlying problem to many of today's ills is that today's wages have no more purchasing power than they did 40 years ago.

I propose basing forgiveness on 1) what the cost of an education would have been had college costs followed inflation AND 2) the extra burden put on families due to wage stagnation. Or something like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:

quote:

You get the point.

All this "forgiveness" stuff essentially rewards adverse selection. That's a horrible way to make policy.

+1
There's room for fixing things moving forward. As for debt forgiveness, this must be considered in conjunction with all other priorities. As has been pointed out by others, our nation has chosen to spend an amazing amount of our resources on the defense of other nations which has permitted them to spend money on things like healthcare for their citizens. We need to spend some time really considering how we wish to prioritize our spending - things like forgiving debt and free tuition are lovely ideas; however, other things being tossed around include Medicare for all, reparations, infrastructure, developing technologies, funding Social Security, etc. We can't have it all. What's sad is how dysfunctional our government is - such that a healthy discussion can't occur - only a continuation of the theater of the absurd as it is currently being played out.

quote:

Originally posted by kluurs:
We can't have it all.

That's not the right attitude. Of course we can have it all. Fix the system. It's clear that unfettered capitalism does. not. work.

eta. I agree about military spending.

quote:

Originally posted by Piano*Dad:

quote:

You get the point.

And those are all good points about fairness.

All this "forgiveness" stuff essentially rewards adverse selection. That's a horrible way to make policy.

Amen, brother. Amen.

I haven't heard a lot of people clamoring for either free college or student loan debt relief.

Seems to me that we have much larger fish to fry.

quote:

Originally posted by Nina:
And to P*D's point (and well-known to families paying for kids in college), tuition is in many cases the smallest bill you'll have. Miscellaneous fees can easily be over 50% of your tuition/fees bill. Housing costs (with super-expensive, mandatory meal plans) can equal or exceed tuition, depending on your major. Free tuition isn't going to magically make college affordable for the truly needy.

UMass is particularly notable in this regard. I'm sure I've mentioned this before. There's a scholarship in Massachusetts that gives a broad range of high-performing students free tuition to state schools. So what did UMass do? It restrained tuition growth and started to grow fees rapidly.