Mr Pique and I have been lucky enough to be part of a community of wonderful friends who have gathered together for Thanksgiving every year for the past 30-plus years--except for the last two. We have missed this event a lot during the pandemic, it is always one of the highlights of the year, because the folks who gather are so very interesting and fun to be with.

Today the annual hostess sent out an email asking us if we should resume the tradition this Thanksgiving. Mr Pique and I really, really would like to go, but, I'm reading that new Covid variants are on their way, that holiday gatherings could make you sick, that the pandemic is not over.

I found a nyt article describing ways to get together for the holidays without potentially killing grandma, and I forwarded it to the hostess, hoping she would take this to heart and our group might discuss and come to some agreement about ways to safely proceed.

Am I being overly cautious? Cases are 'way down in our county, Mr Pique and I have been vaxxed 5x, including with the new bivalent. However, he is 74, he's retiring in less than a month, and his retirement plans include running marathons and climbing mountains, which he definitely won't be doing if he gets Long Covid.

I'm not seeing how 20 to 25 people, ranging in age from grade school to the elderly, from multiple households, are going to be able to gather safely under one roof and eat together, even with the NYT recommendations--in part because I doubt everyone would follow the guidelines.

Until we heard from the hostess today, we just assumed we'd be eating alone at home again :sniff!: I'd made a mental note to order a capon from the local butcher. Now I am really torn.

What are your Thanksgiving plans? And does consideration of Covid enter into them? If so, how does the pandemic continue to factor into your holiday plans?

ETA: Here's the article:
Another Covid Wave Could Be Coming. Here’s How to Make Your Holiday Plans.
https://nyti.ms/3S9aWJz

I will be giving thanks without risking my health as I have done every year since this cursed plague began.

quote:

What are your Thanksgiving plans? And does consideration of Covid enter into them? If so, how does the pandemic continue to factor into your holiday plans?

Pre-covid, we hosted Thanksgiving at our home, but we haven't since covid and I don't think we'll be doing that this year either. I ahve too many things going on right now to risk getting sick, and avoiding covid in order to avoid long covid is always at the forefront of my mind.

The thing we're thinking about is Christmas. Not decided about that either.

We're hosting a small gathering at our place this year. Wife and I should have lots of antibodies coursing through our system at present!

I don't think you're being too cautious.

Omicron seems to be pretty contagious, and I'm not sure how well well the vaccine protects you from infection. So many unanswered questions about how the vaccines and/or natural infection affect the immune system, especially against the current variants.

Small sample, but I know several people who got the bivalent vaccine and who ended up catching COVID anyway. They attended a family event and came down with the virus two or three days later. They were three or four weeks post-vaccine, so the vaccine should have taken effect by then.

edit: And just to make things interesting, around here people have been coming down with a really nasty non-COVID respiratory virus. Family down the street got it and they were all deathly sick. Dad and daughter ended up with secondary bacterial ear infections. It wasn't RSV, either. Maybe this is some local bug and it's not a problem where you are.

In my experience it is VERY contagious. One person caused 25-30 others to get it at MIL's funeral.

That said, no one got seriously ill. But you are not wrong to be cautious.

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Originally posted by wtg:



edit: And just to make things interesting, around here people have been coming down with a really nasty non-COVID respiratory virus. Family down the street got it and they were all deathly sick. Dad and daughter ended up with secondary bacterial ear infections. It wasn't RSV, either. Maybe this is some local bug and it's not a problem where you are.

Bet it’s what’s going through our house. I’m at day 11, on steroids, still have a cough and a slightly sore throat, but seem to be getting better, Steve is currently super sick, cough, headache, terrible sore throat and conjunctivitis in both eyes (he’s about day 5) I may have to take him to the walk in clinic tomorrow. My neighbor got the ear infection and was sick for two weeks. It’s pretty bad.

We have started in-person meetings again at my
foundation which of course includes people at high risk for Covid, many with severe lung disease.

We have a grid that defines rules based on local transmission rates. But when the grid allows us to get together, everyone must take a rapid test each morning of our get together. Several times that protocol has resulted in someone testing positive who didn’t know he had it, thus avoiding exposures that could be tragic.

We implemented the same protocol for my niece’s baby shower in May, and her MIL tested positive and couldn’t attend.

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We have a grid that defines rules based on local transmission rates. But when the grid allows us to get together, everyone must take a rapid test each morning of our get together. Several times that protocol has resulted in someone testing positive who didn’t know he had it, thus avoiding exposures that could be tragic.

I think this is a great approach. But as far as I can tell, far too many people are not interested in doing this. -_-

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Originally posted by jon-nyc:
We have started in-person meetings again at my
foundation which of course includes people at high risk for Covid, many with severe lung disease.

We have a grid that defines rules based on local transmission rates. But when the grid allows us to get together, everyone must take a rapid test each morning of our get together. Several times that protocol has resulted in someone testing positive who didn’t know he had it, thus avoiding exposures that could be tragic.

We implemented the same protocol for my niece’s baby shower in May, and her MIL tested positive and couldn’t attend.

I think this is a great approach if you have highly motivated people (such as your high-risk foundation group). But so many people don't take the risks very seriously, including the hostess of our Thanksgiving gathering, who "does her own research" and for that reason thinks her past bout with Covid is sufficient immunity so she hasn't been vaccinated (that may have changed, I haven't asked her).

One of the suggestions in the NYT article is that, prior to entering the house, have an outdoor testing party. Everyone who is invited to the gathering tests together, and we can all see our results together. That would be great, except I don't trust negative results from rapid tests. When I was a contact tracer, I interviewed many people who had repeatedly tested negative with the hone rapid test, then tested positive when they got a PCR test at a clinic.

I think if you are dealing with a group of highly conscientious people who have been masking indoors in public spaces and who are fully vaxxed, the likelihood of a false negative is considerably less--they are all going to most likely actually be negative.

About the rapid tests as described by the medical folks in our choir:

They are good for determining if you are contageous right now. If there isn't enough material in your nose to show a positive, there isn't enough to pass on to someone else. Like you've already noticed, they aren't as good at determining if you are infected...

We test an hour before the last rehearsal and concert when we are unmasked.

Update:

I did some reading about how to stay safe from infection during holiday gatherings. And replied to the hostess who offered further info and asked what would make me comfortable. She said it would only be eight guests, but she reserved the right to make last minute invitations to any strays who were around.

Basing my suggestions on the reading I had done, I first thanked her for asking what conditions would make me feel comfortable, then listed the following:

Everyone tests the morning of Thanksgiving
Everyone agrees to cancel their appearance if they even have a scratchy throat or a headache
Guests limit their attendance of crowded events in the week leading up to Thanksgiving
Windows are cracked in the house during the party to let in fresh air
Households are seated apart from each other at the table
Masks are worn when we aren't eating.

my friend agreed these were all reasonable precautions, but she is loathe to require them. I understand that. I would find it very hard to ask this of my guests, too--which is why I'm not throwing any parties. Of course she could ask all the guests if they *like* these guidelines and would be willing to adhere to them on their own--maybe we aren't the only ones who would like people to be more careful-- BUT, she herself isn't willing to adhere to them. Because she wants to continue to socialize without precautions out in the community, and would not relinquish these activities for even a week.

And here we come to the nub of our differences, both as citizens of a Covid universe, and as people in a community. I would gladly make such accommodations if it would make even one of my guests more comfortable. She increasingly chooses to do what she wants to do, regardless of how it affects others, and won't sacrifice her preferences (not just in this kind of a situation) to make accommodations for others. I'm all for people having boundaries and being true to themselves, but it's hard not to judge her for this. And I have promised myself to not be judgmental about other people's Covid choices. Easier said than done!

If anything, this tells me I was right to be concerned about attending this gathering, because anyone else who is there also conducts themselves in a similar way.

Now, case counts are low in our county. It is hard to judge just how much risk there is. I am not hearing as much about people being sick with Covid, but I don't think people are testing any more--they certainly aren't reporting. I hear a lot of people saying they have a cold, and they didn't test for Covid.

My husband came home from Costco yesterday and announced that "the pandemic is over!" Costco was packed. He only saw one other person wearing a mask. Now that he is retiring, he won't shop there on the weekend any more. (He is a Costco addict. We need a bigger freezer.)

Mr Pique says he doesn't care one way or the other about Thanksgiving. I do care, a lot, but have to face reality: I won't feel at ease with no masks, closed windows, close seating, no required tests, and with people who have traveled all over with unknown levels of self-protection. And a hostess who must not be bothered by these things or she wouldn't allow this in her home.

I think I will wait and see if the case load goes up dramatically after the holidays. If it does, I'll know I was right to be cautious. If it doesn't... Then I will participate in future.

We have no plans to spend the holiday with anyone other than immediate family. Mrs pj, her daughter, and myself... if that. Daughter is now working a service/hospitality job on a rotating schedule. She will know the week before if she is scheduled to work on Thanksgiving. If so, we'll just move it up or down a day or two. None of us really love turkey that much -- we already bought a turkey breast and we have enough pumpkin for several pies. We have stuffing in a box and potatoes from the garden. That'll be about it.

We went to Ikea today. We were unmasked. I'd say maybe ten percent of the people in the store were masked. I guess we're just getting complacent.

I got my fifth shot - bivalent booster - last Wednesday. I spent the next two days in bed.

Yes, one of the greatest benefits of being retired is being able to go to Costco on a weekday right when it opens. I can buzz through in about ten minutes and get everything on my list. Get in... get out... nobody gets hurt.


My take: if something makes you at all uncomfortable, skip it. Your health is more important. You can say you're not feeling well and don't want to risk passing some bug on to others. Friendships can be patched back together.

Thanks for the reassurance, pj. Our friendship of 30 years is doing okay. We've always spoken plainly with each other. We are going hiking tomorrow. Hubby and I have known for 3 years that this friend has a much higher risk tolerance than we do--she got Covid from her first pandemic thanksgiving. She canceled the usual party, but invited one solo friend to dinner with her boyfriend and his kids. The friend started feeling sick on her drive home from dinner. In the next few days, boyfriend, kids, and my friend all came down with Covid. Then the next spring she was refusing to get vaccinated (she didn't have a bad case of Covid and was leery of the safety of the vaccines, and maintained she had adequate immunity from having been sick). We still camp and hike with her, but don't do indoor things.

I chalk up this difference in risk tolerance to our temperaments. Some people really, really need in-person contact for their mental health, and my friend is one of those. She's got an insatiable capacity for fun--something we do love about her. Hubster and I, while we enjoy our community, are not nearly as gregarious, and would hate joining in on some of the activities she does (a ten-day rafting trip with 30 people--our idea of hell). Seeing friends once a month is a gracious plenty for me. Hubster enjoys people once he is with them, but could go on indefinitely without much social contact and hardly notice. The pandemic lockdown was actually a pleasure for us for a long time.

I have reached the point where I really miss social gatherings, but my life is fine without them. I have several friends--not just this one--who were nearly driven mad by the social isolation imposed before vaccines were available. It has nothing to do with their politics but is a function of their extroverted dispositions.

Just the two of us for dinner tomorrow. Well, three if you count Raffi.

The turkey is deconstructed and has been brined. It's now drying out in a rack in the refrigerator. The turkey stock for the giblet gravy is ready for its final transformation tomorrow.

In the morning I'll cube up the bread and toast it and make stuffing and roast the bird. Brussels sprouts, mashed potatoes, roasted beets, and two kinds of cranberry sauce (one with orange and one with pears and ginger) will round out the menu.

So where did everyone decide to spend Thanksgiving?