Ordinarily, I would feel the student had been wronged. This instance seems well founded, though - even the kind of thing that justifies ridiculing the ultra "Woke" approach.

When my closest friend (Mainland Chinese) first attempted to enter her recently immigrated ten year old son to the same elementary school a son was attending, I expressed indignation on her behalf. The school secretary had informed her she was expected to Anglicize his name (Zhaosheng). She asked for my help, and though I came up with a fairly close phonetic alternative (Joshua), I told her I thought it should have been voluntary. In fact, many Asians are now reclaiming their original names.

Here, I agree with the professor. In fact, I wonder why the student insisted, much less why an Asian Students Organization is so up in arms about it, regarding it as a "micro-aggression" and (allegedly) something most Asians experience in America. I notice too that nowhere is there a word of sympathy for the professor's request (it was described as a request, rather than a command). This seems like a pretty exceptional situation.
Placing him on shamed leave, seems exceptional too, considering the student's name was Phuc Bui Diem Nguyen.

The professor's forced apology and self-recrimination reminded me of similar politically motivated apologies extracted from offenders in Mao's China and Stalin's Russia. Re-education!

Phuc asked by prof to use an Anglicized name

I can't imagine why that kid would not have decided to go by a different name long before he hit college age. Kids do that all the time. Adults do too - a guy by the name of Phuc Dong, a guy I worked with and was one of the first to be airlifted out of Viet Nam, started calling himself Roger as soon as someone pointed out how his name sounded in English.

My friend Darnell is Skip, and has been since he took grief for his name in grade school. My friend Julian is JD, and Thaddeus is TJ. No kid wants to be singled out because of his name.

As an aside, I work with a lot of Asian people, most of whom have adopted an English name. John took his name from John Wayne, Jack from a deck of cards. The women seem to take their names from old books, which is why there are so many 20 something Asian women with names like Agnes, Esther, and Mable.

The whole story is just silly.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Miller:
I can't imagine why that kid would not have decided to go by a different name long before he hit college age. ...
The whole story is just silly.

She HAD begun with a different name, only recently deciding to reclaim her original name. Seems (like so many "offended" victims today) she was just seeking notoriety plus a chance to file a Title IX complaint through the school's office.

Interesting. I know a couple of guys named Phuc (usually spelled Phoac)- fairly recent immigrants who still use that name, but they are all men. I did not know that it was a name used for women as well.

Learned TWO things today!

What's so hard about learning how to pronounce foreign names?

Pronouncing Phuc

I would never, ... repeat, NEVER tell a student to Anglicize their name. When I can't immediately approximate it, I ask them how they say their name and follow their lead. This isn't rocket science, people. But so many Americans are allergic to even making the attempt.

Now, on the other side, virtually ALL of my Chinese students come with pre-Anglicized names that THEY ask me to use. I'm slightly torn in this case. Are they Anglicizing because it's their preference, or because they have internalized Western reactions, or, well, because they simply don't like to hear their name butchered all the time.

I don't have an answer to that question. But I've accepted that Zhiyao is Lucy, Sijia is May, Changlin is Bob, Xuejia is Stella, Xueqi is Cathy and so on. I still tend to email them by their Chinese name, though not always. I go back and forth.

This is a lesson I learned a long time ago, when my aunt decided that she no longer wished to be called by the diminutive version of her given name. You call people what they want to be called. End of story.

I must admit I'm not fond of the reasoning "we've always done it this way," as in "we've always asked Asian students to Anglicize their names."

But I'm also sympathetic to someone not necessarily understanding the implications of their native name and how it might sound in their new country, where they may be unfamiliar with English and slang - Phuc/Phuoc being a good example. It seems like there was an opportunity to respectfully explain what might be problematic about a particular name. But Zhaosheng carries no such overtones, at least that I can figure out.

Seems like the best way to approach this is to say, "some of our children choose to enroll with American names, and some prefer to keep their Chinese name. Which would you like to do?"

End of story. If they choose to go with Zhaosheng, then that's that and it's up to everyone else to learn how to say it correctly. It's not up to us to decide whether they made the right or wrong decision.

quote:

I would never, ... repeat, NEVER tell a student to Anglicize their name.

This (from P*D)

and also this:

quote:

You call people what they want to be called. End of story.

In fairness, I didn't read the article linked, but as a classroom teacher, I alwaysalwaysalways try to be respectful of students' names, and make an effort to quickly learn them, remember them, and use them correctly. It makes a difference.

Even 30 years ago that would have seemed out of line. Definitely today.

WT Phuc?
Call them he or she, or Fred or Phuc. Whatever they want.
Avoid them if you wish when you can.
A friend's daughter was in high school when she decided she would be called Malina. Her parents were fine with that.

I use the names my students ask me to use. Period. In fact, on the first day of school, I have every student - even those with common Anglo names - say their name for me and I write it phonetically below their name on their desk name plates. I originally started doing this because a teacher in our building routinely mispronounced one of my students’ names because “that’s what she called him last year”. Supply teachers told me they appreciated it so I will continue to do it. I also tell my kids repeatedly that it is totally ok to correct anyone who pronounces their name incorrectly. Even if they do it daily and even if they have always said it wrong and you haven’t spoken up before. I model how to correct. someone politely but firmly.

One of my Syrian students told me the Arabic way to say his name - which differs from the English way by a vowel sound. I asked him which I should use and he said the English way. I know that I can’t recreate (or even hear) some Arabic sounds correctly, so that may be why. Whatever the reason, I use what he’s asked for. He may only be 9, but it’s his name so he gets to decide. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to get.

quote:

I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to get.

Because some people put their politics above common decency.

And because some people are embarrassed by their own linguistic inadequacy and respond with aggression rather than with any desire to learn.

A lesson I learned from my daughter recently, which I am still struggling to learn how to implement:

When you get it wrong, don't apologize. If you apologize, that puts a burden on the other person to forgive you. Just correct yourself and work harder not to make the mistake again.

I haven't figured out what I'm supposed to say when I realize I've made a mistake. Correct myself, sure. But what should I say? I generally settle for some variation of "Dammit, I'm an idiot," but I'm not entirely sure that's the correct approach.

Advice on better formulations welcome.

quote:

Originally posted by dolmansaxlil:
I use the names my students ask me to use. Period. In fact, on the first day of school, I have every student - even those with common Anglo names - say their name for me and I write it phonetically below their name on their desk name plates. I originally started doing this because a teacher in our building routinely mispronounced one of my students’ names because “that’s what she called him last year”. Supply teachers told me they appreciated it so I will continue to do it. I also tell my kids repeatedly that it is totally ok to correct anyone who pronounces their name incorrectly. Even if they do it daily and even if they have always said it wrong and you haven’t spoken up before. I model how to correct. someone politely but firmly.

One of my Syrian students told me the Arabic way to say his name - which differs from the English way by a vowel sound. I asked him which I should use and he said the English way. I know that I can’t recreate (or even hear) some Arabic sounds correctly, so that may be why. Whatever the reason, I use what he’s asked for. He may only be 9, but it’s his name so he gets to decide. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to get.

THIS.

I also like that you put phonetic pronunciation under their names for everyone. It means it’s not weird to have it on your name plate; everyone has it.

I know there are some sounds in Cantonese that are hard to make if you’re unfamiliar with them, but most decent people are willing to try.

Quirt:

"Seems I didn't understand the first time."