Look how happy she is in this photo!

And how beautiful in her prom dress.

Mark, this thread is where the real 'you' comes out. Ever since meeting you, I've admired what a joyful person you are, and Mrs. Markj is a real sweetheart.

What a beautiful girl. It's wonderful to hear about the turn around that's taken place. She's fortunate to have parents that have worked so hard to help her.

Tell us a little more about your piano journey. How far did you progress during the years you were self-taught? Did you learn any "bad" habits that your teacher had to make you unlearn? Do you still have the same teacher? What pianos have you usually played on and what would be your ultimate piano?

Big Al

I actually knew how to read the treble clef from childhood. At age 4 or so I used to make my older brother and sister mad because I would hop up on the Baldwin Organ we had and play their lessons just by listening to what they were playing.

My right hand has always been quite capable on the keyboard as a result of this early childhood activity. My parents tried to find me a teacher for the organ but all of the teachers they found that would teach me for 6 months or so said they could not teach me anymore because I like to do things my own way and was not disciplined enough to follow the musical page. What a bunch of crap! If they would have let me play some good music instead of the crap they were trying to make me play I probably would have done much better. I actually got quite good with the pedals but never learned to play anything of merit. What I really wanted was a piano and not an organ. I kept asking my parents to buy a piano but they never did.

Growing up I always told myself that I would play the piano someday. I messed around with it here and there but nothing serious. I went through other musical instruments including a year of cello and finally settled in on Drums and Percussion for my Jr High and High School days. In college I learned to play the guitar but not in a disciplined fashion at all. I noodled around on the piano whenever I saw one but I still did not know how to read the bass clef. I knew a handful of rudimentary chords from my organ days but that was it. The dexterity of my left hand was nonexistent.

When we married I told my wife that someday I would have a piano and I would learn to play the music I love. That someday came 6 months before our first child was born.

About 19 years ago I was talking to Sondra, the mother of my best friend Andy who had died 3 months before our wedding and I told her I was looking for a piano and if she knew anyone who was looking to get rid of one to let me know. Well, she said she was thinking about selling one of her pianos and she would make me a very fair deal on one of them. I bought the early 70s Yamaha upright that Andy used for learning and practicing. It "the piano" we used to gather around and play at parties and the same piano that Andy would try to teach me some things from the progressive rock bands Yes, Kansas and Genesis. Andy was the keyboard guru an I was the drummer. We tried to form a band with others but never found anyone who wanted or who actually had the talent to play the music we wanted to play so we would typically just jam together in his father's art studio. Andy wrote some very original music and he was fortunate enough to "cut an album" and produce a video before he died. The proceeds of the sales of that album went to a cancer charity. I play some percussion on it as well. It was professionally recorded in Chicago and a film crew came to Beloit to professionally produce the video as well. What a great time and memory that was. I tear up every time I listen to the album or even talk about it (like now)

Anyway, I told Sondra that I did not know how to read or play the left hand and if she had any recommendations I would appreciate it. She gave me a copy of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata and told me to just take it slow measure by measure. Write in the notes if you have to. Etc. Let me know if you have any questions. That sort of thing. I still have that original score with all the notes of the left hand written in. I practiced 5 hours a day until I had the first movement memorized. A few phone calls here and there to Sondra and a visit or two to show her what I had accomplished and then she gave me Mozart's K545.

Approximately 6 months after buying the piano and after 32 hours of painful back labor my wife gave birth to our daughter Elizabeth Marie. Momma and Baby were sleeping and I was exhausted from being up and with her for the duration. There was a grand piano at the nurses station which is centrally located in the birthing center. I sat down and played the Moonlight sonata 1st mvmt. I was trying to "unwind".

When I finished my wife's OB/GYN who was standing behind me the for most of the time complimented me on the performance and stated that he also played the piano and was very impressed. He asked me how long I had been playing piano and I answered "6 months seriously". He couldn't believe it and more compliments flowed which kind of embarrassed me.

What was really cool though was a few minutes later a man came up to me and asked if I was the person playing just a little while ago and I said yes. He thanked me and said that his daughter was born while I was playing and that it was just the most beautiful thing he had ever experienced.

I continued on playing part-time. The 5 hour per day practice waned to 3 then 2 then 1 then there were a few years that I didn't even touch the piano until daughter #2 showed interest at age 5. That started me back up in a part-time manner again but nothing serious until about 7 or so years ago when during one of Katie's lessons with her first teacher the first signs of trouble were brewing in her and we were still in the clueless/denial stage. She started to not practice and it started showing in her lessons and she would not even talk to her teacher which her teacher thought was disrespectful blah blah blah. I asked her what the problem was and she told me that I would not understand. I asked what it was that I would not understand and she responded "THE PRESSURE!". The pressure? What are you talking about? "THE PRESSURE OF TAKING LESSONS! OF HAVING TO COME HERE EVERY WEEK AND PERFORM AND NOT MAKE MISTAKES!"

Oh boy! Ok honey, I want to understand it. Do you want to quit? "NO! I want you to take lessons so you can understand what I am going through."

So, I started taking lessons from the same older woman. We scheduled the lessons at the same time for convenience sake. She was right! There is pressure. Lots of it! We bonded but this was the beginning stage of her illness and she started spiraling down into the depths of despair and depression and well you know the rest of that story.

After about a year of lessons with this woman I began to get frustrated. My first lesson was simply "play what you know for me" so I played the 1st movement of the moonlight sonata and the 1st and 2nd movements of Mozart's K545. When I was finished she said, "I don't know if I can teach you anything but if you are willing I would like to start with something you do not know and see how it goes. So we went forward with the 2nd and 3rd Movement of Beethoven's Pathetique. All this time I was trying to get her to let Katie play real music. Bach! Please! Let her play Bach! "She's not ready for that!" Well I knew differently so secretly I purchased Bach's first book for pianists and had Katie start in on it at home. About two weeks later I interrupted the lesson half way through and said "Katie wants to play something for you". Katie played the first two pieces from that book from memory. I said it's time for us to move on and we did. We had previously made arrangements to take lessons from Renato (who I knew from when he was Andy's college professor). I had invited him to the house for a Christmas party and we all played the piano and he listened to both of us and we asked if he would teach us and he said "of course!".

Bad habits! Yes! Tons of them! Mostly in fingering which after the past 5 years of lessons with Renato are finally a thing of the past. Bad habit of wanting to play vs. practice. That's a tough one. Posture, Mannerisms, timing. Yes, many bad habits.

Pianos? I have my dream piano. An Estonia L190 in satin ebony. I was a Steinway or nothing type but never really knew why. Always heard growing up that Steinway was the best bar none! I dreamed of owning one someday. Then when the time came to get a new piano I quickly discovered that I was not in any sort of financial position to afford a new or even a competently rebuilt Steinway! I traded the upright for a new Yamaha C2 in Oak. I was pretty happy with it but not completely. Eighteen months later I sold it and bought the Estonia. I played so many different pianos before making that decision because knew short of winning the lottery or some other type of financial windfall that this would be the last piano I ever bought.

If I ever do win that lottery etc, I always said that I would purchase 3 9ft concert grands but I have extended that to 4.

Hamburg Steinway
Bösendorfer Imperial
Estonia Concert Grand
Fazioli Concert Grand.

I will play on all 4 for a minimum of 1 year. Then I will donate the two or three I do not want to keep to the local school or church.

It has been interesting to learn more about you, Mark. And to read about your musical experiences.

Mark,

I missed this thread - thank you for sharing. You are one incredible person. your daughters are fortunate to have such a loving father - and it sounds like you're awfully lucky to have such incredible children.

I'm not surprised at your daughter being a bit shaky post-depression. That's not unusual. Depression is traumatic, and people don't want to go back there. learning to "trust" that you're free from its grip doesn't come easy.

On the other hand, she's got you in her corner which is great. Mediciine is still pretty crude in many ways. Having an advocate and someone who is willing to keep searching - things to be cherished. I'm glad you kept following up - and glad you've found a road that's taking her out of the valley of darkness.

Your musical background says something about you - huge talent. Great to learn about it.

It sounds like you learned some pretty challenging pieces early in your studies.

Is there any "Mount Everest" of pieces that you'd really like to learn?

Who is your favorite pianist to listen to?

I am so glad to read that your daughter found a treatment that is working. I hope its something she can stick with for many decades to come. How frightening that must have been.
I can imagine the thoughts of "who is this stranger in my brain?".

Wow, you seem to have a serious talent for the piano. I tried to learn and pretty much the only thing that stuck were the names of the keys. Nice to have a hobby that brings pleasure and is fun to share w others too.

quote:

Originally posted by kluurs:
Is there any "Mount Everest" of pieces that you'd really like to learn?

I am learning them now. The Goldbergs. I intend to learn them all and be able to play them from start to finish from memory.

quote:

Originally posted by kluurs:
Who is your favorite pianist to listen to?

Glenn Gould.

I'm just getting to reading this thread. Wow! I'm so happy for your daughter. Thank you for spinning the whole story. I'm with you about the current state of psychiatric medicine. I'm sure there are cases where medications do some good, i.e, full blown schizophreniz and bi-polar disorder. But, all too often, it's just a wild shot in the dark with the latest, in your words, fad medicine. I know of a couple of local psychiatrists who have reputations as the "bi-polar doctor" or the "S.A.D. doctor" in that they can be relied upon to come up with the same diagnosis in the lion's share of their cases. The edochrine system is so complex and affects so many bodily functions, yet it is often overlooked as the source of any number of problems. Good for you for perservering and second-guessing her doctors. What a great outcome.

Mark, just catching up wit this. I am so happy for your daughter. I have heard a number of stories of late where an endocrinologist is the hero. I am starting to think they are the only doctors who really know anything.

jf

Mark,

Thanks for sharing these stories. I wish your daughter the best of luck with her journey "back" as you call it.

Smart of you to persist. What a good parent you are, and how frustrating all of this must have been all this time. (an understatement, I'm sure.) She's lucky to have you for a Dad.

I have really enjoyed this thread, and I'm so happy for your daughter -- as someone who struggled with depression myself (and also found conventional antidepressants useless), I completely agree with your impression that conventional psychiatry amounts to a whole lot of guesswork. I'm so glad you found a biological and treatable reason for her depression and that you have her back from the brink.

Congrats on quitting smoking as well!!! And good luck on your weight loss journey. I briefly hit the 60 lbs lost mark this week (before bouncing back up a bit - danged holiday weekends....and I'm looking right at you, Rich, you and your LeBus chocolate chip cookies and marble cake, LOL!) I'm the original picked-last-in-gym-class girl, so if I can do it, anyone can. Just take it slow and easy (I've been at it for over a year), stay on a regular exercise program, and it will happen. From your posts here, it sounds like you can do anything when you set your mind to it so I have no doubt that you'll succeed!

quote:

Originally posted by big al:
What a beautiful girl. It's wonderful to hear about the turn around that's taken place. She's fortunate to have parents that have worked so hard to help her.

+ 1

Wonderful!