MS is 23 and is thinking of making a career change to be a web designer. She is thinking of quitting her current job and doing an on-line program that would culminate in her receiving a certificate. The program she is considering is Bloc, which would cost her $6K for 12 weeks of instruction.

I am trying to help her decide is this is a good idea. The information she needs is whether this sort of training is valued by those in the industry.

Does anyone have a clue about this (or have anyone they could ask)? I am naturally suspicious and I don't want her getting some worthless piece of paper that potential employers will laugh at.

Aren't there certificates by the big tech companies like Microsoft? I'm guessing they cost more and might take longer, and you probably have to go to a brick-and-mortar classroom, but it would seem like those would surely have currency. But I have no first-hand knowledge and this one may be highly respected, so I hope someone who really knows will chime in.

I asked Horace (Bay Area coder) and Klaus (German CS prof) to chime in.

Cindy, I think web-designer as a career choice is economically a good, reasonable bet.

I looked at the Bloc curriculum and I like it. It is Ruby-on-Rails web application development, technically a significant step-up from mere web design. I also like it not because of some piece of certificate, but because of the "portfolio of projects" that you have to build to get through the course.

Having a portfolio of projects you have actually built to demonstrate to prospective employers/clients is a LOT more convincing than a mere certificate.

I'd say don't get hung up on the value of the certificate; put all your energy into thinking up and building great projects. Work it such that at the end of the course, you have great projects that you can show off to prospective employers/clients.

Good luck to MS!

quote:

Originally posted by Mary Anna:
Aren't there certificates by the big tech companies like Microsoft?

Yes, Microsoft and Cisco offer some certificates that are valuable in the job market, but those are for enterprise application development and for enterprise/telecom network design/deployment.

For web design and web application development, I cannot think of any particularly valuable certificate. Having projects you've done that you can show off, IMO, is still the best currency in the web design/development job market.

Thanks, everyone. Keep the advice coming and I'll pass it along.

I made a similar career move back in the early days of the web. I kept my current job while taking classes at the community college at night, and I also taught myself a lot of it using books and online tutorials. It took significantly longer but was low cost and less risky, and I was able to work on programs that were useful in my current job as I learned (so I had real life scenarios to build and test to instead of making up a project to learn on -- and again, like Ax said, I had a portfolio of actual projects that I had implemented and used on the job when I was ready to job-hunt in the field). In her current field (HR, IIRC?) she could build an online application to collect employee feedback or a chatroom type app for employees to share ideas or whatever -- I'm sure there's something her company needs that she could build and implement as part of her learning process.

The risk of quitting to take a course like that is that if it turns out you don't actually like programming, you are kind of stuck with it. Taking classes at community college or exploring on her own with various online tutorials would let her figure out if she likes programming vs. UI design vs. database design vs. machine learning or whatever before she commits to a big expensive training course. She might also be prudent to speak with a technical recruiter or two to find out what skills are most in demand in her area. No point in learning Ruby on Rails if the jobs in her area are looking for a different language or skillset.

For background, her current job is in tech recruiting. Long hours, commission sales. She doesn't like it and thinks she would not have time for community college classes given the time constraints of her current job.

I think what Lisa suggests is the most sensible thing, but then again, it's not my money . . .

I am not at all an expert of the situation in the US industry, but I'm rather critical of all these "certificates". I don't think they are worth much.

I'd just start learning web programming by myself. There are gazillions of free tutorials, books etc. Just take off a couple of months and learn. Then put some stuff you did on Github such that potential employers can see it. Companies value documented programming experience a lot, such as open source projects he or she has contributed to. But even a public repository with toy projects a beginning programmer has worked on is likely more effective for a job application than a certificate.

quote:

Originally posted by Axtremus:
I looked at the Bloc curriculum and I like it. It is Ruby-on-Rails web application development, technically a significant step-up from mere web design.

RoR is what I do! And Ax is right, it is not web design, it is web site development. If she's interested in design, the list on the left side of the w3schools page ( https://www.w3schools.com/ ) is a great place to start doing tutorials. I do not think it's a replacement for taking course, but she can probably get a head start there. It's a resourceful site.

The w3schools actually offers certificates, but I don't know if they're worth much. https://www.w3schools.com/cert/default.asp

What is the difference between web design and web site development?

quote:

Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
What is the difference between web design and web site development?

Web Design is graphic design: Designing web pages.

Web development: Writing web sites. It means knowing a main programming language (in RoR case: Ruby), a framework (in RoR case: Rails), and a few handfuls of other languages and web technologies.

I'm lucky (imo) because I get to do both design and development, I'm not boxed in.

Salary differences:

Web Design salary: ranges $63K -$84K
Web Developer salary: ranges $35K - $120K

RoR developers in San Franciso area get good bucks: $133K which is above the national average.

web site developers are like truck owners - all their friends ask for a favor.
(this is a good thing if you know how to say 'no')

It looks like Bloc has 2 programs, one for development and one for design. Also, their developer program appears to offer full-stack javascript OR Ruby on Rails development (I keep hearing more about node.js and if I were switching away from RoR, I'd look into it). From their FAQ:

quote:

Our Track programs are built to get you a job as a developer or designer, and are backed by a Tuition Reimbursement Guarantee.

Web Developer Track — A self-paced, online bootcamp that allows you to optimize our industry-vetted curriculum through Personalized Paths: choose either fullstack JavaScript (React + Server-side JavaScript with Express and Node.js) or opt to focus on Ruby on Rails, depending on your desired job market. Learn computer science fundamentals to ensure you understand vital concepts like data structures and algorithms. Experience expert instruction & guidance, accountability & structure, and community through our 360 Support program. If you don’t land a job in web development, we’ll refund your tuition.

Designer Track — A self-paced, remote program that is twice as long as the average design bootcamp and is a holistic program that covers the entire design process arc. The Designer Track combines the research, testing and visual design components of UX/UI with over 130 hours of Frontend development skills needed to build and deploy your projects. If you don’t land a job in design, we’ll refund your tuition.