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The US and the Kurds
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A couple of months ago (article is from August 2019):

quote:
The United States has warned that any Turkish operation in northern Syria would be "unacceptable" and vowed to step up talks to prevent unilateral incursions, as tensions between Washington and Ankara simmer.

On Sunday, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Turkey, which already has a foothold in northwest Syria, will carry out a military operation in a Kurdish-controlled area east of the Euphrates in northern Syria against the US-backed Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG) that Ankara views as a terrorist group.

"Clearly we believe any unilateral action by them [Turkey] would be unacceptable," US defence secretary Mark Esper told reporters in Tokyo on a trip through Asia on Tuesday.

"And so what we are trying to do now is work out with them an arrangement to address their concerns and I'm hopeful we'll get there," said Esper.

"What we're going to do is prevent unilateral incursions that would upset, again, these mutual interests ... the United States, Turkey and the SDF [Syrian Democratic Forces] share with regard to northern Syria," the new Pentagon chief added.



https://www.aljazeera.com/news...190806102918350.html

An unusual Sunday night news dump from the WH...

quote:
In a major shift in United States military policy in Syria, the White House said on Sunday that President Trump had given his endorsement for a Turkish military operation that would sweep away American-backed Kurdish forces near the border in Syria.

Turkey considers the Kurdish forces to be a terrorist insurgency, and has long sought to end American support for the group. But the Kurdish fighters, which are part of the Syrian Democratic Forces, or S.D.F., have been the United States’ most reliable partner in fighting the Islamic State in a strategic corner of northern Syria.

Now, Mr. Trump’s decision goes against the recommendations of top officials in the Pentagon and the State Department who have sought to keep a small troop presence in northeast Syria to continue operations against the Islamic State, or ISIS, and to act as a critical counterweight to Iran and Russia.

Administration officials said that Mr. Trump spoke directly with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey on the issue on Sunday. And the officials indicated that the 100 to 150 United States military personnel deployed to that area would be pulled back in advance of any Turkish operation but that they would not be completely withdrawn from Syria.

On Monday, witnesses in Syria saw United States forces withdrawing from two positions in northeastern Syria: observation posts in Tel Abyad and Ein Eissa.

“Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria,” the White House said in a statement released just before 11 p.m. in Washington. “The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial ‘Caliphate,’ will no longer be in the immediate area.”

It was unclear how extensive the Turkish operation would be, or whether Turkish forces would clash with the American-backed Kurds, a development that could jeopardize many of the counterterrorism gains achieved by the American military in the fight against ISIS.

Last December, Mr. Trump called for a complete United States withdrawal from Syria, but ultimately reversed himself after a backlash from Pentagon, diplomatic and intelligence officials, as well as important allies in Europe and the Middle East.

Soner Cagaptay, the director of the Turkish Research Program at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, and author of “Erdogan’s Empire: Turkey and the Politics of the Middle East,” said in a telephone interview that a Turkish incursion uncontested by the United States would allow Turkey to cut another swath into Kurdish-controlled territory in Syria. That would give Mr. Erdogan a ready place to send hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees and prove yet again his influence with Mr. Trump on Syria policy.

“It’s a quite a significant development,” Mr. Cagaptay said.

Many Syria experts criticized the White House decision and cautioned that American abandonment of its Kurdish allies could widen the eight-year Syrian conflict and prompt the Kurds to ally with the Syrian government of President Bashar al-Assad to combat the much larger and more technologically advanced Turkish army.

“Allowing Turkey to move into northern Syria is one of the most destabilizing moves we can do in the Middle East,” Representative Ruben Gallego, an Arizona Democrat and former Marine who served in the Iraq war, said on Twitter on Sunday night. “The Kurds will never trust America again. They will look for new alliances or independence to protect themselves.”

The announcement by the White House came as a shock to the S.D.F., Kurdish officials said on Monday. In a statement, the S.D.F. said that it had fulfilled its obligations in the efforts to reduce tensions with the Turks but that the United States had not.

The statement warned that a Turkish incursion could endanger the progress made to establish security in the wake of the battle against the Islamic State. It also called on Kurdish forces to “defend our homeland from the Turkish aggression.”

Mr. Erdogan has demanded a “safe zone” for his nation to run 20 miles deep and 300 miles along the Turkish-Syrian border east of the Euphrates. That area, he has said, would be reserved for the return of at least a million Syrian refugees now inside Turkey. Mr. Erdogan has threatened to send a wave of Syrian migrants to Europe instead if the international community does not support the initiative to send them back to Syria.

Since early August, the American and Turkish militaries have been working together on a series of confidence-building measures — including joint reconnaissance flights and ground patrols — in a 75-mile-long strip of that 300-mile border area.

American-backed Kurdish forces have pulled back several miles and destroyed fortifications in that area.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/1...mp-turkey-syria.html


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37794 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pinta & the Santa Maria
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This is where Trump's inability to listen to advice could take us into a war. No good.
 
Posts: 35367 | Location: West: North and South! | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
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Depends on what is being done. Turkey is overrun with Syrian refugees who need to be somewhere. But I agree we cannot screw the Kurds again.


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Posts: 13525 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"I've got morons on my team."

Mitt Romney
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But that's exactly what we're doing again. GHWB redux.
 
Posts: 12513 | Location: Williamsburg, VA | Registered: 19 July 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Max Boot's op-ed.

quote:
Trump betrays a friend — and hands a gift to our enemies

Normally, a president facing impeachment argues that those proceedings are a grave distraction from his weighty foreign policy responsibilities, and that national security will suffer as a result. In President Trump’s case, a distraction is a good thing, because when he focuses spastically and sporadically on foreign policy, he usually makes the situation far worse.

Think of Trump’s pullout from the Iran nuclear deal, which has led Tehran to accelerate its enrichment of fissile material and its attacks on neighbors. Or Trump’s love affair with Kim Jong Un, which has allowed the North Korean tyrant to continue developing his nuclear and missile programs while escaping international isolation. (U.S. talks with North Korea broke down again this weekend.) Or Trump’s costly trade war with China, which has no end in sight. Or Trump’s attempts to enlist countries such as Ukraine and Australia in his domestic political vendettas, which places them in an impossible position.

One of the few bright spots in the president’s calamitous foreign policy has been the battle against the Islamic State. Trump inherited from President Barack Obama a sensible strategy which depended on augmenting the Syrian Democratic Forces (primarily Kurdish fighters) with U.S. advisers and air support. The result was the smashing of the Islamic State’s caliphate and the establishment of a U.S.-backed zone in eastern Syria that prevented Bashar al-Assad from extending his rule across the entire country with the help of his Iranian and Russian allies.

Alas, Trump cannot help but mess with success. In December, after a call with Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan, he announced a pullout of all U.S. forces from Syria, causing then-Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Brett McGurk, then the senior envoy in the fight against the Islamic State, to resign in disgust. John Bolton, the national security adviser at the time, eventually convinced the mercurial president to merely reduce the number of U.S. troops in Syria from 2,000 to fewer than 1,000. Even this move, though not as bad as a complete pullout, has proved costly.

In August, the inspector generals for the State and Defense departments reported that the Islamic State retains 14,000 to 18,000 fighters in Syria and Iraq and is stepping up insurgent operations in both countries. The drawdown of U.S. forces, the inspectors general wrote, “decreased the amount of resources and support available to . . . Syrian partner forces at a time when they need additional reinforcing for counterinsurgency operations against ISIS.”

On Sunday, following another conversation with Erdogan, Trump announced — in what he describes as “my great and unmatched wisdom” — that he is pulling back U.S. forces from northern Syria and would allow Turkish troops to move in. The Turks want to establish a buffer zone in which they can resettle Syrian refugees — and also to push back the Kurdish fighters which, because of their ties to Kurdish insurgents in Turkey, are viewed by Ankara as a threat. The Kurds have vowed to resist this Turkish incursion, setting up the possibility that, rather than fighting the remnants of the Islamic State, two U.S. allies will be fighting each other. The Kurds are likely to look for help from Assad and Iran, allowing the United States’ enemies to take advantage of the situation.

The fate of Islamic State detainees remains uncertain. The Kurds are holding 10,000 ISIS fighters, including 2,000 foreigners, in various prisons and are supervising 60,000 of their family members at a displaced persons camp in al-Hol in the northeastern part of the country. The statement issued on Sunday by White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham to explain Trump’s sudden move — which sounded as though it was dictated by Trump himself — showed utter indifference to this critical issue: “The United States Government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured ISIS fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused. The United States will not hold them for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer. Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial ‘Caliphate’ by the United States.”

It’s untrue that the United States was holding these detainees; they are held by the Kurds. But the Kurds may not be able to continue holding them without U.S. support — while also battling the Turkish army. So, because European nations did not want to take back Islamic State detainees — just as the United States did not — the president is risking the release of some of the world’s most dangerous terrorists. His bizarre threat to “totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey” if prisoners are freed is as empty as most of his ultimatums.
Given his lack of loyalty to anyone not named Trump — and even to some who are — the president will not be troubled by the betrayal of our Kurdish allies who bled and sacrificed to defeat the Islamic State. But the damage to U.S. foreign policy will be incalculable. Trump is rewarding a dictator — Erdogan — who defies the United States by purchasing a S-400 air-defense system from Russia and by ignoring U.S. sanctions against Iran, while punishing valuable and vulnerable allies who have been repeatedly assured by the U.S. military that we will stand with them. This will strengthen Russian President Vladimir Putin’s argument that the United States is an unreliable ally — so better to partner with Russia instead.

As Charles Maurice de Talleyrand said, "This is worse than a crime. It is a mistake.” Trump does less damage when he spews witless insults against Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi.


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37794 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Even Lindsay. From his Twitter feed:

quote:
I don’t know all the details regarding President Trump’s decision in northern Syria. In process of setting up phone call with Secretary Pompeo.

If press reports are accurate this is a disaster in the making.


quote:
* Ensures ISIS comeback.
* Forces Kurds to align with Assad and Iran.
* Destroys Turkey’s relationship with U.S. Congress.
* Will be a stain on America’s honor for abandoning the Kurds.


quote:


Also, if this plan goes forward will introduce Senate resolution opposing and asking for reversal of this decision. Expect it will receive strong bipartisan support.





https://twitter.com/LindseyGra...Enews%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37794 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And Marco Rubio:

quote:
We degraded ISIS using Kurd’s as the ground force. Now we have abandoned them & they face annihilation at the hands of the Turkish military

ISIS could now be reinvigorated when 1000’s of jailed fighters break out when the Kurdish guards are forced to leave to go fight Turkey https://t.co/Uc6MvsNOZ5
— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) October 7, 2019


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37794 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nikki Haley

quote:
We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake. #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37794 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by wtg: Lindsay Graham


Lindsay is "concerned." That guy sold his soul a long time ago.

Sternly worded memo to follow.


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Life is short. Play with your dog.

 
Posts: 34851 | Location: Hooterville, OH | Registered: 23 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
knitterati
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I always try to see if there’s another way to see current events. Is there a reason why something is good, and we’re not just going around screaming because, well, we’re determined to hate everything someone does?

But citing “my great and unmatched wisdom” leads me to believe that this is a bad move. Who says that?! I poked around Twitter to see if it was a spoof account. Sadly, no.


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Posts: 9789 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 06 June 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good heavens, I think the end times are near. Pat Robertson and I are on the same side of an issue.

quote:
When you’ve lost Pat Robertson…

Reacting to President Donald Trump’s announcement that American forces will pull out of Syria and pave the way for Turkey to invade the country and attack Kurdish allies, the ultra-conservative televangelist on Monday joined the growing chorus of Republican critics of the president’s decision.

“I am absolutely appalled that the United States is going to betray those democratic forces in northern Syria,” he said during Monday’s broadcast of The 700 Club, first spotted by Right Wing Watch. “That we are possibly going to allow the Turkish to come in against the Kurds.”

Calling Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan a “thug” and “dictator,” Robertson said it was “nonsense” to call the Turkish leader an ally of America, claiming Erdogan is just “in for himself.”

Robertson, who has been a loyal Trump supporter, then took full aim at the president.

“The president, who allowed [Washington Post journalist Jamal] Khashoggi to be cut in pieces without any repercussions whatsoever, is now allowing the Christians and the Kurds to be massacred by the Turks,” he exclaimed. “The President of the United States is in danger of losing the mandate of heaven if he permits this to happen.”


https://www.thedailybeast.com/...e-pulls-out-of-syria


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37794 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Great post, AM. A good reminder that it's always best to view an issue from all perspectives.


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We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love… and then we return home. - Australian Aboriginal proverb

Bazootiehead-in-training



 
Posts: 37794 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’m tired of doing that. Does that make me a bad person?

Both sides don’t do it. They never did.


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Life is short. Play with your dog.

 
Posts: 34851 | Location: Hooterville, OH | Registered: 23 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
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Erdogan must have agreed to investigate the Bidens.

jf


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Posts: 17671 | Location: Maine | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
Erdogan must have agreed to investigate the Bidens.

jf


Big Grin


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Posts: 25677 | Location: Still living at 9000 feet in the High Rockies of Colorado | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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