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Pinta & the Santa Maria
Has Achieved Nirvana
Picture of Nina
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Nope. I am saying that if someone is truly espousing hateful things, they need to be called out. What you're advocating is just another flavor of political correctness.
 
Posts: 31992 | Location: West: North and South! | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Mikhailoh
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Yet you used the term deplorables, which has come to mean something else again. You can't just throw that out now and say 'well, I didn't mean THOSE deplorables, the GOOD ones, I mean the really BAD deplorables.".

What I am advocating is respect for others' views, which is not political correctness any more than not using racial slurs is.


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“Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.” - David Icke

 
Posts: 11061 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pinta & the Santa Maria
Has Achieved Nirvana
Picture of Nina
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No, not at all. What I'm saying is that it's unfair to throw the term "deplorable" around indiscriminately to imply that all Trump voters fit that mold. But there are most certainly some Trump supporters that do fit that mold--who see in Trump a match to their vision of white supremacy, for example. Does that mean that Trump voters are white supremacists? No. But some most certainly are, and I think it's OK to call those individuals deplorable.

I do not respect the views of white supremacists. I reject them totally. If you are asking me to do some form of "love the sinner, hate the sin," then at least their you acknowledge the presence of sin. To simply say we need to "respect other people's views," regardless of how abhorrent those views are, is where you and I part ways, I guess.
 
Posts: 31992 | Location: West: North and South! | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Mikhailoh
posted Hide Post
You are really in the weeds on this one. You are taking about a tiny minority, who has for our entire lives been a tiny minority and somewhat of a joke.

I've known a couple Klansmen. One was just a rather pathetic, powerless person. The other was one of the strongest minds I ever knew. He grew up being taught prejudice but once in the Klan he realized they were so eaten up with hate they stood for nothing but that and left. He never got over his prejudice entirely but he didn't live it either.

I don't think the overt white supremacists are the ones to worry about. I'm more concerned about those that harbor prejudice that you would never see. Those are reduced each generation. But by calling them stupid, ignorant and deplorable you simply reinforce their beliefs and negate any progress.


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“Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.” - David Icke

 
Posts: 11061 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Has Achieved Nirvana
Picture of Steve Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by big al:
IMHO, one mistake made during the 2016 Presidential campaign was dismissing a group of people as "deplorables"


Boy howdy. Probably cost her the election.


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Life is short. Play with your dog.

 
Posts: 27042 | Location: Yorba Linda, CA | Registered: 23 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Techno-Stud
Minor Deity
Picture of Matt G.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mikhailoh:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
quote:
Originally posted by Mikhailoh:
There are a lot of people in this country who are tired of being told their ideas are stupid and backwards and that they should just listen to the more educated.

So, when a really stupid idea gets traction among the undereducated, what are those of us with functioning powers of reason to do? Nod our heads and say, "Bless your hearts!"?

Somehow, it sounds like you're touting willful ignorance as a political bargaining chip. That is not only dangerous, but it's (as above) a stupid idea.
So disagreement with you equals ignorance. You just made my point.

Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the notion that all opinions are equal and deserving of respect.

When authorities and experts in a subject nearly unanimously agree on a point, I tend to believe them. When my next door neighbor opines on the effectiveness of a border wall, my eyes glaze over because her opinions have no basis in demonstrable fact. She's not an expert. But, are you proposing that I should respect her opinion because she's not an intellectual? Anti-intellectualism has never solved a damned thing.

You know, there's a reason that when parties to litigation decide to bring in "experts" to testify, the court has to approve of them. No litigant is going to bring in testimony of someone who has little to no knowledge of the subject at hand. In an analogous manner, I put no credence in the opinions of people whose knowledge of a matter is sketchy.

I guess this makes me an "elitist" as a result. Well, I'll wear that badge with pride, if that's the one you're giving out because of my lack of respect for stupid ideas.

Here's a suggestion, just so you can say that you're equally respectful of others' opinions. The next time someone comes at you with an idea that you know, as an expert in your field, is laughable, by all means give that person's opinion all the respect in the world. Perhaps even act upon it. I mean, honestly, they're just opinions, so they're all equally valid, right?


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[Insert Signature Here]

 
Posts: 15272 | Location: Plainfield, IL | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Mikhailoh
posted Hide Post
I deal with that regularly and manage to do so without disrespecting the individuals involved.


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“Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.” - David Icke

 
Posts: 11061 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Has Achieved Nirvana
Picture of Steve Miller
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All this political correctness is wearing me out.


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Life is short. Play with your dog.

 
Posts: 27042 | Location: Yorba Linda, CA | Registered: 23 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Mikhailoh
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Miller:
All this political correctness is wearing me out.
Big Grin


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“Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.” - David Icke

 
Posts: 11061 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pinta & the Santa Maria
Has Achieved Nirvana
Picture of Nina
posted Hide Post
Nice pivot from respecting opinions to respecting individuals.
 
Posts: 31992 | Location: West: North and South! | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Mikhailoh
posted Hide Post
That's what I've been talking about all along.


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“Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.” - David Icke

 
Posts: 11061 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Axtremus
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May be something like this: “With all due respect to you personally, what you said is stupid.”


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www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

 
Posts: 10911 | Registered: 01 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Republican Party identification has begun requiring intellectual vacuity.

-- Jennifer Rubin (she's a conservative for those who don't read much)
Beatification Candidate
Picture of Piano*Dad
posted Hide Post
Any time someone says, "with all due respect," it means they have absolutely NO respect. Big Grin
 
Posts: 7924 | Location: Williamsburg, VA | Registered: 19 July 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Minor Deity
Picture of Mikhailoh
posted Hide Post
Yeah, that phrase only works for Mafioso.


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“Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, that held its ground.” - David Icke

 
Posts: 11061 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member SIPC
Minor Deity
Picture of markb
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Axtremus:
May be something like this: “With all due respect to you personally, what you said is stupid.”


Big Grin
 
Posts: 14221 | Location: Merry Land | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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